Re: [WSG] hello
I'd also add that the 'Web 2.0' as a word / phrase and phenomena is a way of describing the internet and new design concepts to those who make decisions on it but don't really have any idea about it. e.g. Marketing Managers whom have developers and designers telling them we need to do this and this to the web site and the manager not seeing the pointwhen it looks like their brochure and they do not get many complaints. Oh yeah, and the hits are steady or up! Like others have said a buzz word, but I think a necessary one. William libwebdev wrote: Kat wrote: Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? I don't know, but it's certainly *beyond* the web. Librarians around the world have been flapping their arms and gums about "Library 2.0" for ages, which, imo, is even more ridiculous than Web 2.0. lib. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:03/21/2008 14:27:50 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:03/21/2008 14:27:52 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] hCard microformat and phone numbers
> the second one seems more strict to me. > i think our microformats-philosophy is to make it as readable by bots as possible. > IMHO: > [span class="type"]Office[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > is simpler to parse than > [span class="tel"][span class="type">Office[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I need to wrap phone numbers, what's the best way to go for this? >> >> [div class="phones"] >> [span class="tel"][span class="type">Home[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [span class="tel"][span class="type">Pager[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [span class="tel"][span class="type">Office[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [/div] >> >> [div class="tel"] >> [span class="type"]Home[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [span class="type"]Pager[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [span class="type"]Office[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] >> [/div] I agree, but the first one would allow more styling options... So I was hoping more for a "same difference, it doesn't matter" kind of answer ;) -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
Nor I. -- E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hCard microformat and phone numbers
hi,the second one seems more strict to me. i think our microformats-philosophy is to make it as readable by bots as possible. IMHO: [span class="type"]Office[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] is simpler to parse than [span class="tel"][span class="type">Office[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I need to wrap phone numbers, what's the best way to go for this? > > [div class="phones"] > [span class="tel"][span class="type">Home[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [span class="tel"][span class="type">Pager[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [span class="tel"][span class="type">Office[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [/div] > > [div class="tel"] > [span class="type"]Home[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [span class="type"]Pager[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [span class="type"]Office[/span][span class="value"] > +1.415.555.1212[/span] > [/div] > > > Thanks > > -- > Regards, > Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > -- С уважением, Юрий "akella" Артюх, UA WEB http://uaweb.in.ua, +38 (096) 970 64 28, skype: akella_, icq: 296395204 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] hCard microformat and phone numbers
I need to wrap phone numbers, what's the best way to go for this? [div class="phones"] [span class="tel"][span class="type">Home[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [span class="tel"][span class="type">Pager[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [span class="tel"][span class="type">Office[/span] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [/div] [div class="tel"] [span class="type"]Home[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [span class="type"]Pager[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [span class="type"]Office[/span][span class="value"] +1.415.555.1212[/span] [/div] Thanks -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
Also Spracht Thierry Koblentz: > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mike Brown > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://webstock.org.nz/past/recordings.php > > Enjoy! > >> Could anyone download these files? >>>I couldn't download them either Overall access to the site seems slow. I figured I would try copying the links into GetRight, and let it get whatever whenever until we're good to go. Knock on wood. Glad to see Molly is on the agenda. I think my next job will have to be her baggage handler. -- I made magic once. Now, the sofa is gone. http://dwacon.blogspot.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mike Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://webstock.org.nz/past/recordings.php > > Enjoy! > >> Could anyone download these files? I couldn't download them either -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Webstock recordings now available
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mike Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://webstock.org.nz/past/recordings.php > > Enjoy! > > Mike > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > Could anyone download these files? I'm trying to download the mp3 (because of the lighter file size) but the speed is 1-3kB/sec and the connection is interrupted so I can't get the whole file (plus the outrageous time to download it, around 7hours for 43MB) :( Any chance to upload them to RapidShare or some other host? I could upload them to my hosting (I've got plenty of space and bandwidth, so I could store the mp3 there) if you upload them somewhere so I can download them. Anyway, much appreciated. Gonzalo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Out-of-office)
Thanks for your email. I'm currently out of the office and will be returning on Wednesday 26 March 2008. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hanging indents
Hello Rob, facing the great problem of trying to make the screen look like print. Good point. I had that issue with a site I recently made. The client wanted every entry to "look" like it did in print. For example, the print version used uppercase headings. The client was adding this content to the site, and making the headings uppercase (which were not the style of the site). I suggested that I could make a style to make the headings uppercase without actually making them uppercase. I also noted that unlike the Word version, these are real headings so it should be better if anything. But my client said that wouldn't fly. The entries were legal documents and "had to be exact." I argued the point a bit, but I'm not a lawyer, so I gave up. Cheers. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 10:52 AM, tee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I > coded for her break when IE 7 came out. I think this version > targeting thing really got people worry. Um, could you just not add the meta tag saying 'treat as IE7'? -Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hanging indents
> The document could be made available for download as a PDF and also RTF (for > accessibility purposes). Joe Clark pulled me up on this, and after checking into it, it is something of a myth that RTF is good for accessibility. RTF has no structure and (if I remember correctly) no means of including alt text. A PDF could be done accessibly, as could a word doc (Andrew Kirkpatrick posted on this recently: http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2008/03/reference_card_for_accessible.html), but RTF is only good if you want plain text. Every OS includes something that can open word (<=2003) docs, at least as well as an RTF equivalent would do. It is akin to a universality vs accessibility arguement, except that .doc is pretty much as universal these days. Cheers, - Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
I've used conditional comments to serve tweak CSS files to older IE versions. When I tested IE8 on my sites they all looked fine and I didn't have to add a separate CSS file for it. That's quite a good sign for a beta version. (I'm using strict mode here so it triggered IE8's superstandard mode.) However, there is no way to make sure it'll work with IE8 now, as it's still in beta. You'd have to wait until the RC builds before you can be even close to that. Provided your CC doesn't feed IE8 with fixes intended for IE5, 6 or 7 I think you should be fine. If your client demands you're 100% sure it'll work fine then your client is being very unresonable as the product is still under heavy development. - Original Message - From: "tee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:52 AM Subject: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8? I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'. Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I coded for her break when IE 7 came out. I think this version targeting thing really got people worry. Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all until client was making this request. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldsets outside of forms. Was: Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius
David Dorward skrev: From the spec: The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. --- As I said, I am no minimalist. And yes, I have read the spec. It does not forbid me to use fieldsets outside of forms. Specs use the language of "MAY NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", etc for such scenarios. I do not wish to enforce my interpretation upon anyone. If someone is more of a minimalist in this case than I am - more power to ya! I don't mind. D. It works and has no negative effects that I am aware of. It has the same negative effects as using tables for layout. Nope, I can't see that. Tables for layout means that I lose separation of concerns. I need to change my HTML-code if I want to rearrange stuff. My two fieldsets are no harder to move around than a div. If I do not wish to use fieldsets anymore, there are only three or four small changes to make in my templates for the entire site. Likewise, tables can produce an effect for screen readers where they constantly hear "table start", "table row", "table cell", etc. That would be annoying, distracting and confusing. I can't see that my two fieldsets would be any such thing, nor have I seen any research that claims that to be the case. If someone knows of such research that I've missed, I am more than willing to change my mind. E. I wanted the effect... Effects are the realm of CSS and JS, not markup. Generally true, but for me not worth the trouble in this case. Default styling of an element (this particular effect I wanted) can be an ally. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
On Mar 21, 2008, at 6:52 AM, tee wrote: make sure my code will work for IE8... That's about as reasonable a request as booking a Caribbean cruise in hurricane season and asking the cruise company to guarantee fair weather... Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius
On 20 Mar 2008, at 19:34, Keryx Web wrote: tee skrev: I thought fieldset (with legend) are used only for form elements, I am curious why you would used it in your right column's content. A. It is valid. You may use it according to the DTD. Many things are valid. The DTD is not expressive of semantics. B. It is being used for grouping of content. So? C. I am not a minimalist in interpreting specs. It was developed for forms, but I have not seen that you SHOULD NOT use it outside of forms, i.e. it is not verboten. From the spec: The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users to understand their purpose while simultaneously facilitating tabbing navigation for visual user agents and speech navigation for speech-oriented user agents. The proper use of this element makes documents more accessible. Grouping "controls and labels". Not "anything", not "content". Just "controls and labels". D. It works and has no negative effects that I am aware of. It has the same negative effects as using tables for layout. E. I wanted the effect... Effects are the realm of CSS and JS, not markup. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
tee wrote: I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8.Client is from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'. You've got no real IE8 to make anything work for yet, so, no. IE8b1 is so weak and broken that it doesn't make sense to do anything but reporting its weaknesses back to the IE-team. Better wait for better betas or the final version, or else you risk ending up having to redo whatever you do for it now. IE8 final will probably be relatively standard compliant - based on what the IE-team has written about it and what one can imagine from studying IE8b1, so there's a chance we won't have to do much for it if a design is made to work well in better browsers. Advice: just make sure IE8 can't see any fixes for IE6 and IE7, or for IE/Mac, and leave it at that for now. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'. Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I coded for her break when IE 7 came out. I think this version targeting thing really got people worry. Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all until client was making this request. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hanging indents
Elizabeth I believe the solution Mike came up with to be a sound one. However maybe you should step back and think why this should be a web page at all. You are facing the great problem of trying to make the screen look like print. Something which drives most of us up the wall at some point. The document could be made available for download as a PDF and also RTF (for accessibility purposes). It is unlikely that your client want to have the content spidered for search engine purposes. It also makes the site more maintainable. A change to the document doesn't need to have skilled HTML work carried out on the site. remember you've also got the print style sheets to contend with. This approach also means that the document will always appear the way they intend, irrespective of screen width etc. just my two penny worth.. -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton On 21/03/2008, Elizabeth Spiegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all > > I'm developing a site for a non-profit organisation and one page is their > constitution. I'm trying to get the clauses to appear with a hanging > indent > as they currently do in the word version: > > http://www.dra.org.au/files/QTI5QDJCKU/DRA-Constitution-Amended-10Feb07%20(6 > 7%20KB).doc. I thought I'd achieved it using a float - see > www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution_float.html - then looked at it > in IE 6 and started tearing my hair out. > > I then tried a different approach using white-space: pre; > www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution.html. I don't like this as it > relies on multiple spaces and I suspect that it will stop lining up as > soon > as fonts other than the default are used. > > Suggestions anyone? (Note that I can't change the numbering scheme.) > > Elizabeth Spiegel > Web editing > > 0409 986 158 > GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 > www.spiegelweb.com.au > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hanging indents
Perhaps you could try nested lists. On Fri, March 21, 2008 1:56 am, Elizabeth Spiegel wrote: > Hi all > > I'm developing a site for a non-profit organisation and one page is their > constitution. I'm trying to get the clauses to appear with a hanging > indent > as they currently do in the word version: > http://www.dra.org.au/files/QTI5QDJCKU/DRA-Constitution-Amended-10Feb07%20(6 > 7%20KB).doc. I thought I'd achieved it using a float - see > www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution_float.html - then looked at it > in IE 6 and started tearing my hair out. > > I then tried a different approach using white-space: pre; > www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution.html. I don't like this as it > relies on multiple spaces and I suspect that it will stop lining up as > soon > as fonts other than the default are used. > > Suggestions anyone? (Note that I can't change the numbering scheme.) > > Elizabeth Spiegel > Web editing > > 0409 986 158 > GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 > www.spiegelweb.com.au > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
