Re: [WSG] The correct way of placing a swf file into a XHTML webpage
Thank you-- It looks like we are going with the SWFObject 2.0 static method. The http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay article was also helpful in that it explained the process. Do you know if the alternative content can be picked up by a text reader? Thank you, Dory On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Melissa Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: use javascript to insert the flash, which will also auto activate the flash in IE and do some flash player detection something like swfobject would do the trick http://code.google.com/p/swfobject/ On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Mahendran Venkatesan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dory, You can use 'object' tag for embedding flash files. Refer this link: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay Thanks! Venkatesan M On 3/25/08, Dory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am currently working on a site that has a small flash file for decorative purposes. I inherited the site and want to make it web standards compliant. The problem: the XHTML code in the site is using the embed tag for the flash. Is there a way to place swf files into a XHTML webpage that will allow the page to validate? (I believe the embed tag has been deprecated.) Any links to references would be appreciated. Thank you, Dory Ptak *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls
Hi all,
I am putting together a print stylesheet for an online newsletter that contains
quite a number of urls, some of which are very long.
In order to make the printed version of the newsletter meaningful I have
considered using:
#content a:after { content: ( attr(href) ) ; }
to show the urls after the links. This is fine, except for the really long
urls, which:
1. are really ugly
2. make readability of the newsletter poor
3. do not break in Firefox (at least on the Mac), and are therefore truncated,
rendering them useless.
I have found an article entitled: Improving Link Display for Print:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/improvingprint/
which overcomes points 1. and 2. above, but not point 3.
However, this is only useful if JavaScript is enabled.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Otherwise I guess I'm going to have to do away with the links altogether :(
Cheers,
--
Sarah Peeke
XERT Communications
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: s.peeke
Website: http://xert.com.au/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpeeke
Geofeat International: http://geofeat.com/
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Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name
Semantic markup for a person's name or business nameThe ADDRESS element is intended to provide contact information for the author of the HTML document, not any address. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.6 -Thom - Original Message - From: Cole Kuryakin To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:56 AM Subject: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name Hello All - I've been reading a book by Andy Clarke which has a few pages related to micro-formats. He uses the example of marking up an address tag similar to the below using classes (note that br's are mine for formatting): address span class=street101 Some Street, /span span class=subdivisionSome Sub division/spanbr / span class=cityAlameda, /span span class=stateCalifornia, /span span class=postal94501/spanbr / span class=countryUnited States of America/span /address But. what if you want to include a person's name (or a business name) ABOVE the address tag? The only thing that comes immediately to mind would be citeJohn Smith/cite but that doesn't seem correct. Or, should one use an additional span above the address block like this: span class=contactNameJohn Smith/span? So the whole thing might look like this: span class=contactNameJohn Smith/span address span class=street101 Some Street, /span span class=subdivisionSome Sub division/spanbr / span class=cityAlameda, /span span class=stateCalifornia, /span span class=postal94501/spanbr / span class=countryUnited States of America/span /address Interested in all opinions as well as if there is any current standard which addresses this particular issue. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name
Semantic markup for a person's name or business nameI think the address tag is specifically intended for the author contact for the page itself (and only used once on a page). for hCard markup see this page: http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard If you want tools that use microformats (such as the Operator Firefox plugin) to see it you should use hCard property names for the classnames and enclose the whole thing in an element with the class vcard. fn post-office-box extended-address street-address locality region postal-code country-name tel use fn for the person's name (fn is required for a valid hCard) eg: span class=fnJohn Smith/span street-address instead of street ...etc... If you need to put something outside the vcard container that needs to be seen as part of that hCard (eg for something that is repeated), you can use include-pattern - http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern. (only if you really need to - this does rely on parsers having DOM-like functions) If you just want to mark up an address rather than a contact with a name there is also adr - http://microformats.org/wiki/adr *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name
Thanks to all for their input on this issue. The hCard link within microformats.org was very helpful. Two follow-on question though: 1. What does the v and h stand for in regards to vCard and hCard, and: 2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use for formatting data using microformats? I mean, if your format various content using microformat standards - as they currently exist - is this information then usable/parse-able on different devices? Or is the use of microformats simply an effort to make specific content blocks (content details, calendars, etc.) semantically coherent in html documents? Thanks to all again. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name
Cole Kuryakin wrote: 2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use for formatting data using microformats? For some practical examples of doing stuff with hCard: Online service to translate hCard into vCard (ie. put directly into your contacts application: http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/ Operator Firefox Add-on to make use of microformatted content from directly within the browser: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106 Example code for using hCards to fill in forms: http://lib.omnia-computing.de/hcardmapper Also, Technorati make heavy use of microformats (they were the originators of several of them): http://kitchen.technorati.com/search Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists
Hi, No, I mean User Agent Quote from W3C: INS and DEL are used to markup sections of the document that have been inserted or deleted with respect to a different version of a document (e.g., in draft legislation where lawmakers need to view the changes). ... User agents should render inserted and deleted text in ways that make the change obvious. For instance, inserted text may appear in a special font, deleted text may not be shown at all or be shown as struck-through or with special markings, etc. On Tue, March 25, 2008 2:13 pm, Svip wrote: Don't you mean server sided rather than browser/user agent? /Svip On 25/03/2008, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, RE: When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this I can't say I've ever felt the need to use these tags, but isn't hiding the content supposed to be the job of the browser/user agent - rather than you using CSS. On Sun, March 23, 2008 12:43 pm, Thomas Thomassen wrote: I was working on some examples for the use of del and ins. http://www.thomthom.net/blog/2008/03/document-history-viewer-making-use-of-del-and-ins/ As I was working on this I wanted to mark up a list where items had been added and removed. That's when I realised that you can't wrap up li dt or dd in del or ins elements because ul, ol and dl only allows list items as their direct child. The del and ins then have to be wrapped inside the list item. ul liItem 1/li lidelItem 2/del/li liItem 3/li /ul When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this: * Item 1 * * Item 3 Because I could wrap up the entire list item, the bullet point would still remain. To me it appears illogical to not wrap the del or ins around the list items when you add and remove items to the list. I'm guessing it's a case where every scenario wasn't accounted for when the specifications was written. (Yes, I know that I could add an extra class to the list item that I wanted to hide, but it's not the point. It shouldn't be necessary.) However, when this scenario presents itself I see it as fine to break the specification and mark it up like this: ul liItem 1/li delliItem 2/li/del liItem 3/li /ul This seem to render exactly as I expect it to do in every browser I've tested. * Item 1 * Item 3 I posted a comment about it in the W3C public HTML discussion group, hoping it'd be picked up and amend HTML5's specification to allow this. However, there's yet been any response. Is there any other place I could air this issue in hope of it getting heards by the authors of the next HTML specs? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls
Hi Sarah, On 26-Mar-08, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Peeke wrote: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/improvingprint/ However, this is only useful if JavaScript is enabled. In the article listed, if javascript is disabled, then the links are displayed inline. I don't think there is a more elegant solution using *only* CSS. You could, of course, have a separate page which is specifically built for print, which uses some server-side voodoo to display the links elsewhere, but that is beyond me. The advisability of that method is also suspect. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls
I am putting together a print stylesheet for an online newsletter that contains quite a number of urls, some of which are very long. Hi Sarah, You could translate your long URLs to shorter ones using some code on your server or TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/ Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Gelotte;Kepler;;Mr. FN:Kepler Gelotte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ORG:Neighbor Webmaster TITLE:Web Designer TEL;WORK;VOICE:(732) 302-0904 TEL;WORK;FAX:(732) 302-0904 ADR;WORK:;;156 Normandy Dr;Piscataway;NJ;08854;United States of America LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:156 Normandy Dr=0D=0APiscataway, NJ 08854=0D=0AUnited States of America URL;WORK:http://www.neighborwebmaster.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20070415T052107Z END:VCARD
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Thanks for your email. I am currently out of the office on training and will return on Friday the 28th of March. Regards, Damian Keeghan p class=MsoNormalfont size=1 face=Verdanaspan style='font-size:8.0pt; font-family:Verdana'/font font size=1 face=Verdanaspan style='font-size:8.0pt; font-family:Verdana'This email and any attachments to it are confidential. You must not use, disclose or act on the email if you are not the intended recipient. Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation. Deloitte is a member of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu (a Swiss Verein). As a Swiss Verein (association), neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity operating under the names Deloitte, Deloitte Touche, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, or other related names. Services are provided by the member firms or their subsidiaries and affiliates and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein./font *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks. Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all should be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of the IE development team, while not always stellar in the past, genuinely seem to be going in the right direction. They're working with the Web Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't the disaster that IE6 and 7 have been. -- Jody Tate Web Developer - UW Network Systems http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/ On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:52 AM, tee wrote: I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out, she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'. Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I coded for her break when IE 7 came out. I think this version targeting thing really got people worry. Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all until client was making this request. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?
Hi Jody and others who responded to my post. I am very relief to know that I don't need to worry. tee On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:20 AM, jody tate wrote: IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks. Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all should be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of the IE development team, while not always stellar in the past, genuinely seem to be going in the right direction. They're working with the Web Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't the disaster that IE6 and 7 have been. -- Jody Tate Web Developer - UW Network Systems http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists
Thomas Thomassen skrev: Thanks. Got a link to where I can follow that incase there's response? http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-March/014252.html There have been two responses so far. One wishing to expand the suggestion and one that is simply positive. No word from Ian yet. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The correct way of placing a swf file into a XHTML webpage
On 26/03/2008, at 11:30 PM, Steve Green wrote: No it can't. Flash content that is embedded using techniques such as UFO and SWFObject is not visible to screen readers - they don't even know it's there. If the content is important, you need to provide an accessible alternative. If you're going to be embedding flash using SWFObject then you'll be able to provide alternative content for users without the flash browser plug-in or javascript enabled. This means that screen readers and spiders will be able to read the alternative content. Typically, flash banners contain animations; but there isn't any reason why a single, static frame couldn't be displayed as alternative content. If you're going to display an image, you could potentially use alternate text. That said, if it's purely presentational you're better off not including alternate text (Alt=). In contrast, you might want to use a parent div and apply a background image to that using CSS for the alternative content. SWFObject is a safe and accessible method for embedding flash content. However, you should be aware that the WCAG discourages animations from playing without user intervention first (That is, the user selects play). Cheers, Tate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie7 and firefox
[EMAIL PROTECTED]@R KULEKCİ wrote: which browser is better to try web site. i rarely look my web site in ie. is firefox enough? No, you need to test in multiple browsers. Since even two standards compliant browsers may render the same page slightly differently, you certainly will need to test in IE. While IE7 is better than IE6, which in turn was better than IE5, it still falls short of the compliant browsers (which themselves are really only almost compliant), the only way to know for sure if it renders properly is to test. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name
2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use for formatting data using microformats? I mean, if your format various content using microformat standards - as they currently exist - is this information then usable/parse-able on different devices? Or is the use of microformats simply an effort to make specific content blocks (content details, calendars, etc.) semantically coherent in html documents? Check out the Firefox plugins Operator - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106 and Tails - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2240 It looks like some native support for microformats may be coming soon to Firefox http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_microformats and also IE8, though they seem to be creating their own variation - Webslices which appears to be a wrapper around hAtom - http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/webslices.mspx There are also some online services to do conversions (such as X2V - http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/ ) Check out the implementations pages on the microformats.org wiki for other implementations - eg: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-implementations *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] restricting width in the body tag
Hi all, I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view. Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen resolution. (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens) and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be applied to the body tag? Thank William *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag
William Donovan wrote: Hi all, I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view. Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen resolution. (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens) and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be applied to the body tag? Thank William This, to me, sounds like a design decision and doesn't seem related to web standards at all. Review your targeted viewers, and assess your design and usability in whatever environments your viewers will be using Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag
Hi William, It sounds like you're looking for something like a 'jello layout' (term not mine) You can find out more here: http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello.html Basically a jello layout will expand and shrink with the browser window but only to a defined minimum / maximum. HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag
Hi William my preference is to view banner elements in a 100% wide chunk that blend (hopefully) for a seamless look. I acknowledge that this is not always possible (or desirable). As a 1680 pixel wide laptop user I have to agree that fixed width is an issue, especially for totally left-aligned treatments. I think a good basic rule of thumb is to make screen elements float-y wherever possible without getting in the way of the user's right to set their text size themselves. Best regards, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 1:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag Hi all, I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view. Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen resolution. (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens) and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be applied to the body tag? Thank William *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking any action in reliance on, this communication by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies and telephone SMS Management Technology on 9696 0911 immediately. Any views expressed in this Communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of SMS Management Technology. Except as required by law, SMS Management Technology does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: Re: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag
A design issue, possibly, However the end basis for decisions are standards and evidence, and was wondering if there was any out there. If no real evidence is available, the it is up to those with the strongest opinion. Good note on assessing environments and user requirements, however that is not something that happens or is monitored. William Chris Broadfoot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Donovan wrote: Hi all, I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view. Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen resolution. (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens) and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be applied to the body tag? Thank William This, to me, sounds like a design decision and doesn't seem related to web standards at all. Review your targeted viewers, and assess your design and usability in whatever environments your viewers will be using Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] floats and ie7
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dwain
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:49 PM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] floats and ie7
i thought i had fixed this problem. i guess i didn't.
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com/
in ff, opera, safari 3.1 and seamonkey the page looks the way i intended. i
have an address and menu on the left and two pictures floated
right. in the source code the pix follow the address so on the page they are
even with the bottom of the address line on the right side of the
page. the pix are in their own shrink-wrapped div. in ie7 the pix split the
address and menu. i've looked at the css until it all runs
together. what am i missing? and ms said that ie7 was more standards
compliant, fooey!
Hi Dwain,
The easy fix:
#nav {zoom:1;}
But that won't validate (and I know you want the styles sheet to validate), so
you may want to hide it inside a Conditional Comment or try any other property
that will trigger hasLayout in IE.
For example float will work too:
#nav {float:left;display:inline;}
display:inline is to prevent IE to double the left margin
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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RE: [WSG] floats and ie7
i thought i had fixed this problem. i guess i didn't.
Hi Dwain,
Try adding float: left to your nav definition:
#nav {
FLOAT: left; FONT-SIZE: 90%; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 8.5em; COLOR:
#039; TEXT-ALIGN: left
}
Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
http://www.neighborwebmaster.com www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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FN:Kepler Gelotte ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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[WSG] Why is u deprecated?
Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Gelotte;Kepler;;Mr. FN:Kepler Gelotte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ORG:Neighbor Webmaster TITLE:Web Designer TEL;WORK;VOICE:(732) 302-0904 TEL;WORK;FAX:(732) 302-0904 ADR;WORK:;;156 Normandy Dr;Piscataway;NJ;08854;United States of America LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:156 Normandy Dr=0D=0APiscataway, NJ 08854=0D=0AUnited States of America URL;WORK:http://www.neighborwebmaster.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20070415T052107Z END:VCARD
Re: [WSG] floats and ie7
thanks kepler for the reply. i just figured it out. i added a width of 30%
to the nav rule and ie7 played right. sometimes things just go over my head
and i have to look at the outlined divs in firefox to figure things like
this out. i was seeing a blue line for a dive that went all the way across
the page. then i remembered that i had a nav div. when i checked the rule
there was no width, therefore it was defaulting at 100%. cutting the width
percentage fixed the problem.
dwain
On 3/26/08, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i thought i had fixed this problem. i guess i didn't.
Hi Dwain,
Try adding float: left to your nav definition:
#nav {
FLOAT: left; FONT-SIZE: 90%; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 8.5em; COLOR:
#039; TEXT-ALIGN: left
}
Best regards,
*Kepler Gelotte*
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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--
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky
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Re: [WSG] floats and ie7
thanks thierry for your response. there was no width set on the nav div and
that was the culprit. after my bout with the nn4 style sheet i guess i was
brain dead. let me know when you will be in alabama and we'll roll out the
red carpet southern style when you get here.
dwain
On 3/26/08, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of dwain
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:49 PM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] floats and ie7
i thought i had fixed this problem. i guess i didn't.
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com/
in ff, opera, safari 3.1 and seamonkey the page looks the way i
intended. i have an address and menu on the left and two pictures floated
right. in the source code the pix follow the address so on the page
they are even with the bottom of the address line on the right side of the
page. the pix are in their own shrink-wrapped div. in ie7 the pix
split the address and menu. i've looked at the css until it all runs
together. what am i missing? and ms said that ie7 was more standards
compliant, fooey!
Hi Dwain,
The easy fix:
#nav {zoom:1;}
But that won't validate (and I know you want the styles sheet to
validate), so you may want to hide it inside a Conditional Comment or try
any other property that will trigger hasLayout in IE.
For example float will work too:
#nav {float:left;display:inline;}
display:inline is to prevent IE to double the left margin
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky
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Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
Hi Kepler, In many ways, b has been deprecated in favour of strong and i in favour of em (emphasis). u (underline) has been deprecated because it shouldn't be part of structural markup, but instead part of styling, so it would be replaced by span class=underline/span or similar. The reason b (bold) and i italic haven't actually been deprecated is that the HTML working group were worried it would lead to the misuse of other presentational tags, indeed such as em and strong, which should be considered whenever you use these 'newer' tags! cheers, John Kepler Gelotte wrote: Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
Here I found they are not technically depreciated but they have recommended replacements |b| Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |strong |element be used instead. |i| Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |em |element be used instead. http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-bo/td-dt/adea-sread-eng.asp It does look like they are part of the presentation module http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_presentationmodule Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Kepler Gelotte wrote: Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
Thanks for the explanation John. I think the standards group still should have deprecated b and i though. Seems a pretty weak argument to say that strong and em will be misused because b and i already are. Bold and italics can be controlled through CSS as well, leaving HTML as clean and semantic as possible. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Gelotte;Kepler;;Mr. FN:Kepler Gelotte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ORG:Neighbor Webmaster TITLE:Web Designer TEL;WORK;VOICE:(732) 302-0904 TEL;WORK;FAX:(732) 302-0904 ADR;WORK:;;156 Normandy Dr;Piscataway;NJ;08854;United States of America LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:156 Normandy Dr=0D=0APiscataway, NJ 08854=0D=0AUnited States of America URL;WORK:http://www.neighborwebmaster.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20070415T052107Z END:VCARD
[WSG] why do some divs shrink wrap and others don't [OT?]
after my experience tonight i was wondering why some divs will shrink wrap their contents while others don't. any takers? dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] floats and ie7
thanks thierry for your response. there was no width set on the nav div and
that was the culprit.
after my bout with the nn4 style sheet i guess i was brain dead. let me know
when you will be in alabama
Hi Dwain,
It does not need a width, it needs hasLayout [1].
If it works with a width it is because width is one of the properties that
triggers hasLayout in IE.
zoom does this, but also position:absolute, display:inline-block, height, float
and a few others.
In any case, keep width if you see that it works the way you want.
As a side note, if you want to fix the display issue in IE 6 (your images ),
you'll need to insert the following:
#adgpix {width: 242px;}
imho, it is a good habit to always set a width on floats. I believe it used to
be in the specs and I guess old browsers know that ;)
[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
The presentational elements such as b, i, s and u are deprecated as because it can be achieved by CSS. For example, u can be achieved by *text-decoration: underline*;. I think, em and strong have been left for *screen readers* to understand the emphasize part. Thanks! Venkatesan M On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Validating Flash
Hi List, My question is about embedding Flash on html pages (just certain elements - not talking about full flash sites). I always get errors from HTML Tidy and the validator about the object and embed tags, which wrecks my validated markup. What is the standards-compliant way to embed Flash elements so that my site validates and stops throwing errors? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
I agree with the reasoning but in practice I think its actually better to
use b and i (maybe not so much u) - sometimes you just want something
bold and its much less markup to wrap b and i instead of span
class=bold [which in itself creates the conumdrum of separating markup
from presentation: what do you call this class??]some text/span then
.bold { font-weight: bold; etc; etc; } I hope they don't deprecate it
completely, it is useful when you don't want something to be strong for
screen readers, just bold text.
My 2 cents.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mahendran Venkatesan
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 4:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
The presentational elements such as b, i, s and u are deprecated as
because it can be achieved by CSS. For example, u can be achieved by
text-decoration: underline;.
I think, em and strong have been left for screen readers to understand
the emphasize part.
Thanks!
Venkatesan M
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Kepler Gelotte
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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