Re: CLOSED Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
for anything good to spread in a network it takes lots of small voices, not one big one. Nice one Trovester, (though don't forget to sniff for other (not windows) OS's) Sean On 23/10/2004, at 3:53 PM, James Ellis wrote: Offlist please, this has nothing do with the implementation of web standards. Mozilla vs * discussions are best left for places like mozillazine.org. Don't request to keep things like this on the list or your account will be unsubscribed - that's not a threat, we are just trying to keep this list on -topic with a manageable volume of traffic. If you were discussing how you implemented your website to be XHTML 1.0 strict then thats ok. Regards James Trovster wrote: I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox http://firefox.trovster.com But as you can see it's pretty thin at the moment. I have added my favourite extensions, with links and short descriptions to the "customise" section, and links to other resources in the "links" section (funny that!). I am looking for some help in writing some motivational words in the "about" and "why" sections. I have outlined some sections I would like in the "why" section but I would like some help writing it. Also, send me information on more articles and favourite extensions/themes etc. If anyone can help, you can either email me personally or keep it on the list. Thanks Trevor Morris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
CLOSED Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
Offlist please, this has nothing do with the implementation of web standards. Mozilla vs * discussions are best left for places like mozillazine.org. Don't request to keep things like this on the list or your account will be unsubscribed - that's not a threat, we are just trying to keep this list on -topic with a manageable volume of traffic. If you were discussing how you implemented your website to be XHTML 1.0 strict then thats ok. Regards James Trovster wrote: I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox http://firefox.trovster.com But as you can see it's pretty thin at the moment. I have added my favourite extensions, with links and short descriptions to the "customise" section, and links to other resources in the "links" section (funny that!). I am looking for some help in writing some motivational words in the "about" and "why" sections. I have outlined some sections I would like in the "why" section but I would like some help writing it. Also, send me information on more articles and favourite extensions/themes etc. If anyone can help, you can either email me personally or keep it on the list. Thanks Trevor Morris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
On 10/22/04 7:20 AM "Trovster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out: > If anyone can help, you can either email me personally or keep it on the list. I'd keep it off list. This list is getting too much questionable content these days. Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Hey Anton,
Well the issue isn't really the size of the PHP.
It's the size of the browser output.
Because the browser will cache the CSS...
But the PHP file is 6kb...
And its 90% CSS, and just a few PHP switches and variables.
I dont like style switchers too much either.
This really is a style creator/switcher.
The main reason I did it is - proof of concept - and to try something new.
It just makes styling 100* easier and faster.
because every new style I add.
Is just based on editing the default.
EG - a serif style, and a sans-serif style.
Would simply be 1 line extra in the stylesheet.php file...
Because if just needs to change the variable for the BODY_FONTS
But a more complex style sheet switch - like a fixed switch to fluid
layout... that would be hard.
And at the moment it isn't setup to handle that.
But things like - moving the navigation to the left/right etc...
It works great.
The MAIN reason I did this was.
I have always wanted more than 1 stylesheet.
BUT...
I HAT creating new ones.
Becuase as soon as I make a new page.
I need to edit 10 stylesheet pages to add the new styles that may be
needd for that page (if there is something new on them)...
This way.
I just add the new style to the Default stylesheet.
And edit how it displays in the other stylesheets by just tweaking the
variables.
*Thanks for the input!*
Anton wrote:
Sounds pretty cool.
I'm curious though, what's the file size of all that php in the css, as opposed
to actually handling 4 separate css files for color that can @import the main
body/text styles from a fifth master file?
It sounds really big and fancy, but for a style switcher I'm just wondering how
efficient all that work is?
Sorry if I sound negative, I don't mean to... I'm just not really a fan of style
switchers unless it has a distinct advantage of adjusting readability/usability
for the visitor.
Although, to your advantage, I love kick-ass php writing.
Anton
Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
*Hey WSG,*
I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became really
dodgy etc...
It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and well
- its pretty cool how it all works.
I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
finished with the site...
BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
and think its /latin/, happened before.
Ok.
What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php sets
the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
See how the location is d_index_default.css
Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
index page, with the colour: default...
If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
that will then become:
link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Each page also changes the link...
eg - if i had the contact page working.
The link inside that would be:
link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
or if you are still using green
link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
file...
I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
works is below...
The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
background images, fonts etc...)
Then the PHP has a "switch" function - which deterimines WHICH colour
you are loading...
Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
styles...
eg:
contact page would have:
#contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
{
blah...
}
SOO
In effect.
The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
styles...
And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
(.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
but in effect, i only have one!
adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function points...
And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
*If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
I dont mind if oth
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Sounds pretty cool.
I'm curious though, what's the file size of all that php in the css, as opposed
to actually handling 4 separate css files for color that can @import the main
body/text styles from a fifth master file?
It sounds really big and fancy, but for a style switcher I'm just wondering how
efficient all that work is?
Sorry if I sound negative, I don't mean to... I'm just not really a fan of style
switchers unless it has a distinct advantage of adjusting readability/usability
for the visitor.
Although, to your advantage, I love kick-ass php writing.
Anton
Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> *Hey WSG,*
>
> I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
> This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
> But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became really
> dodgy etc...
> It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
>
> If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
> I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and well
> - its pretty cool how it all works.
> I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
> finished with the site...
> BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
> and think its /latin/, happened before.
>
> Ok.
> What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php sets
> the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
> > > link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_default.css"
> title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
>
> See how the location is d_index_default.css
>
> Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
> index page, with the colour: default...
> If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
> that will then become:
> > > link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_green.css"
> title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
>
>
> Each page also changes the link...
> eg - if i had the contact page working.
> The link inside that would be:
> > > link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_default.css"
> title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
> or if you are still using green
> > > link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_green.css"
> title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
>
> Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
> I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
> file...
>
> I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
> works is below...
>
> The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
> background images, fonts etc...)
> Then the PHP has a "switch" function - which deterimines WHICH colour
> you are loading...
> Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
>
> THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
> Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
> styles...
> eg:
> contact page would have:
>
> #contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
> {
> blah...
> }
>
>
>
> SOO
> In effect.
> The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
> styles...
> And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
> (.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
> So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
> but in effect, i only have one!
>
> adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
> I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function points...
> And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
> The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
>
>
> *If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
> I dont mind if other people use this method - I would like it if you
> gave me credit.
> but yeah.
>
> I havent seen it used anywhere else - but then again - I didn't really look.
> if you have seen this method used somewhere else - please post some links...
> Cheers!
>
> *Hope that wasnt too long...
> And I hope it is easy to understand - and someone out there learnt
> something they might use...
> *
> *--
>
> Chris Stratford
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.neester.com
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Hey Michael, Sorry my title is a little off - the post isn't so much about the cookie and the style switcher. But more about the PHP code being very efficent in presenting the CSS to the browser. So you only load the CSS you are using on that page... And you have 1 file, for every page, and for every style There are limitations, but not too many... You can always work around them with extra variables... :) Thanks for the input though. Cheers Michael Dale wrote: I use a style switcher on my site although it works a bit differently. $dxstyle = $_COOKIE["dxstyle"]; $replace_strings = array("../" , "..\\" , "/..", "\\..", "."); $dxstyle = str_replace($replace_strings, "", $dxstyle);
if (file_exists("style".$dxstyle.".css")) { echo "/style".$dxstyle.".css";
}
else { echo "/style5.css";
}
echo ");"; ?>
Sorry if that is a bit hard to read. What happens is when you click on the style changer you are set a cookie. The php code above reads which style you're using from the cookie and loads the correct style. If no style is set it loads the default one. In action here: http://blog.dalegroup.net (although all the other styles are dodgy :p) Michael Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why is one page of several linked to the same stylesheet exhibiting different behaviour?
Just as an FYI there are a couple of errors in your html and your styles.
<>
this line in the html
Speaker: Peg
This line in your css
.caption {font-size: 0.8em; font-style: italic; text-align: center:}
also, I'm not sure why you're floating the image div in the left nav
which is already floating?
Neither one of these is your issue though, I think the problem is a
combination of the amount of the padding in #floatimgleft with the
increased size of the image, combined with the margin on the tag
without padding set to 0. When I kill the padding and reduce the
image width to 60, or remove the border in the P and put in 0 padding
it works OK, so you need to play around with those.
Susan R. Grossman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
RE: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
I use a style switcher on my site although it works a bit differently.
$dxstyle = $_COOKIE["dxstyle"];
$replace_strings = array("../" , "..\\" , "/..", "\\..", "."); $dxstyle =
str_replace($replace_strings, "", $dxstyle);
Sorry if that is a bit hard to read. What happens is when you click on the style
changer you are set a cookie. The php code above reads which style you're using from
the cookie and loads the correct style. If no style is set it loads the default one.
In action here:
http://blog.dalegroup.net
(although all the other styles are dodgy :p)
Michael Dale
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] My Style Switcher...
Sorry if the last part of that didn't make sense.
When it echos the default CSS to the browser - I just meant.
It is irrelivant what page you are on.
Becuase its global CSS...
This is what the CSS looks like in the PHP:
body
{
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 150px 0;
background: #
url(/styles/default_background_.gif) repeat;
color: #;
font-family: ;
font-size: ;
text-align: center;
}
#cont
{
background-color: #;
text-align: left;
width: ;
margin: ;
}
#header
{
height: ;
background: # no-repeat;
color: #;
}
#nav
{
padding: ;
width: ;
float: left;
margin: ;
background-color: #;
color: #;
}
below all that is the:
switch($PAGE)
case 'contact':
?>
<<>> etc...
<<>> etc...
Hope that helped explain it a bit more...
:)
Chris Stratford wrote:
*Hey WSG,*
I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became
really dodgy etc...
It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and
well - its pretty cool how it all works.
I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
finished with the site...
BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
and think its /latin/, happened before.
Ok.
What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php
sets the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
See how the location is d_index_default.css
Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
index page, with the colour: default...
If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
that will then become:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Each page also changes the link...
eg - if i had the contact page working.
The link inside that would be:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
or if you are still using green
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
file...
I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
works is below...
The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
background images, fonts etc...)
Then the PHP has a "switch" function - which deterimines WHICH colour
you are loading...
Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
styles...
eg:
contact page would have:
#contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
{
blah...
}
SOO
In effect.
The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
styles...
And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
(.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
but in effect, i only have one!
adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function
points...
And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
*If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
I dont mind if other people use this method - I would like it if you
gave me credit.
but yeah.
I havent seen it used anywhere else - but then again - I didn't really
look.
if you have seen this method used somewhere else - please post some
links...
Cheers!
*Hope that wasnt too long...
And I hope it is easy to understand - and someone out there learnt
something they might use...
*
*--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] My Style Switcher...
*Hey WSG,*
I have just begun re-development of neester.com once again.
This time because my server switched Magic Quotes on... Which is good!
But all my old scripting had addslashes etc... and it just became really
dodgy etc...
It was a good excuse to redevelop it again.
If you goto www.neester.com you will see a grey page.
I have used my own styleswitcher which I think is very efficent and well
- its pretty cool how it all works.
I will explain it here now - and I will write an article when I am
finished with the site...
BTW I know I could of used Lorium Ipsum - but Google will get annoyed
and think its /latin/, happened before.
Ok.
What happens is, once you load the page - the PHP inside index.php sets
the stylesheet location in the HEADER to:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
See how the location is d_index_default.css
Well, that basically means, it loads the default stylesheet, for the
index page, with the colour: default...
If you click on a different style on the page, say Green...
that will then become:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_index_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Each page also changes the link...
eg - if i had the contact page working.
The link inside that would be:
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_default.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
or if you are still using green
> link rel="stylesheet" href="/styles/d_contact_green.css"
title="Neester.Com | Default Style" media="all" type="text/css"
Now I dont actually have 100,000 stylesheets for all these.
I am using .htaccess to redirect these connections to a single PHP CSS
file...
I cant include the whole file here, but here is an algorithm of how it
works is below...
The PHP loads with about 100 variables (colours, margins, paddings,
background images, fonts etc...)
Then the PHP has a "switch" function - which deterimines WHICH colour
you are loading...
Then it resets some of the 100 variables - to suit that style...
THEN it echo's the DEFAULT styles to the browser...
Then it has another SWITCH, which it echo's only that PAGES RELEVANT
styles...
eg:
contact page would have:
#contact_form input,#contact_form select,#contact_form textarea
{
blah...
}
SOO
In effect.
The browser sees 4 stylesheets per page if you go through each of the
styles...
And it will cache them too - because they actually have a real path
(.htaccess just modifies it when it gets to the server)...
So it will run asif I have 100 stylesheets...
but in effect, i only have one!
adding those 4 styles has been a breeze.
I just added about 20 lines to each of the STYLES SWITCH function points...
And yeah - because you only edit the styles you want to change.
The rest can stay default (margins for example...)
*If you are more interested, I can send you the PHP code for this.
I dont mind if other people use this method - I would like it if you
gave me credit.
but yeah.
I havent seen it used anywhere else - but then again - I didn't really look.
if you have seen this method used somewhere else - please post some links...
Cheers!
*Hope that wasnt too long...
And I hope it is easy to understand - and someone out there learnt
something they might use...
*
*--
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.neester.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] Why is one page of several linked to the same stylesheet exhibiting different behaviour?
An earlier version of these pages had I think the IE double-margin bug on the left sidebar. I fixed this by adding "display: inline" to #floatimgleft. All was well until I decided to widen the background image of the sidebar and add a border to it. This did not cause a problem in all the pages except one. Mozilla/Firefox is fine but IE and Opera still show what looks like the double-margin bug on one particular page. As all the pages are linked to the same stylesheet, I thought it must be the content of the sidebar that was causing the problem but I added content to some of the other sidebars and they still remained OK. www.mwg.green.net.au/testpagesSaturday/meetings.html is the page with the problem. The links now work so if someone would see what the problem is I would be very grateful. Thanks Lyn Patterson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
Lobbying who? MS has shown itself to be singularly un-interested in standards, esp with the whole Avalon thing with Longhorn. Moz & co have produced a browser (or a few actually) which mostly supports web standards and have made a commitment to improving their support of those standards. I would have thought that promoting the use of standards-based software would be a good thing. Certainly not just promoting FF, but there are a number of alternatives to IE that are largely standards compliant. The more people that use them, the more standards will matter. That's what it does for web standards. Also, while most people will use IE, if enough corporations start to switch, it's just possible that MS may take notice. Individuals, or even developer lobby groups calling for better IE development will really not get much of a responce. Mozilla now has ~ 5% market share (depending on what metric you use), and I know of a large number of unis that now use it almost exclusively. That's breeding a whole generation of people who know there's a standards-based alternative. This is a good thing for web standards. Glenn Jonothan Stribling wrote: Whilst Firefox may be a bloody good browser, shouldn't the WSG list be more about lobbying for a range of browsers that are Web Standards friendly. IE may cause most web developers committed to standards to pull their hair out but the fact is it is still used by the majority of interner users and unless MS totally disappears this is likely to continue. I find the whole "smash IE" and support firefox thing a total waste of energy. What does this really do for web standards? Jonothan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
for anything good to spread in a network it takes lots of small voices, not one big one. Nice one Trovester, (though don't forget to sniff for other (not windows) OS's) Sean On 23/10/2004, at 3:34 AM, Patrick Lauke wrote: From: Trovster I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox http://firefox.trovster.com Not to sound like a party pooper, but...why not spend energy contributing to the official http://www.spreadfirefox.com, rather than fragmenting the landscape with a separate new site? I'm all for diversity and variety, but I think what we need is a concerted, focussed, single-minded effort rather than lots of small competing ones... IMHO, of course. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:39:26 +1000, Jonothan Stribling wrote: > I find the whole "smash IE" and support firefox thing a total waste of > energy. What does this really do for web standards? Well, yes! But its the Firefox people who are promoting Firefox specifically, and this doesn't seem unreasonable. The good people at WaSP - The Web Standards Project - are responsible for Browse Happy. I don't think W3c does anything (specific) about promoting browsers, and that probably correct too, as they should not be accused of bias. HIH Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
I'm with you on this one Jonothan. The whole thing does get pretty tiresome. Beware the wrath of the evangelist. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonothan Stribling Sent: Saturday, 23 October 2004 8:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion Whilst Firefox may be a bloody good browser, shouldn't the WSG list be more about lobbying for a range of browsers that are Web Standards friendly. IE may cause most web developers committed to standards to pull their hair out but the fact is it is still used by the majority of interner users and unless MS totally disappears this is likely to continue. I find the whole "smash IE" and support firefox thing a total waste of energy. What does this really do for web standards? Jonothan On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:53:12 +0100, Trovster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's browse happy campaign - http://browsehappy.com/ which talks > about experiences from changing from IE to Opera/Mozilla/Firefox and > Safari > > Trev > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
Whilst Firefox may be a bloody good browser, shouldn't the WSG list be more about lobbying for a range of browsers that are Web Standards friendly. IE may cause most web developers committed to standards to pull their hair out but the fact is it is still used by the majority of interner users and unless MS totally disappears this is likely to continue. I find the whole "smash IE" and support firefox thing a total waste of energy. What does this really do for web standards? Jonothan On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:53:12 +0100, Trovster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's browse happy campaign - http://browsehappy.com/ which talks > about experiences from changing from IE to Opera/Mozilla/Firefox and > Safari > > Trev > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dotted line.
Thanks for everyone's help. After messing around with the order of the CSS
and eliminating the the global links, I finally got the page to behave.
Well, at least 'till my next batch of code! One small step...one step at a
time...
On 10/22/04 5:35 PM, "Anton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The attributes seem swapped to me, it should go {size | type | color}.
> You can also shorten the color to three letters to replace the double sets,
> like
> so:
>
> dt a:hover {
> border-bottom: 1px dotted #FC0;
> }
>
>
> Quoting Bennie Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> This is what is giving the dotted line...
>>
>> dt a:hover {
>> border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
>> }
>>
>>
>> --
>> Get Firefox Browser
>> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=6908&t=58
>>
>> Bennie's MIDI Page
>> http://bennieshepherd.com/
>>
>> Athens, Georgia, Relay For Life
>> http://www.athensrelay.net/
>>
>> Montrose, Colorado, Relay For Life
>> http://montroserelay.com/
>>
>> Grand Junction, Colorado, Relay For Life
>> http://grandjunctionrelay.org
>>
>> LZ Friendly Veterans Org
>> http://lzfriendly.org
>>
>>
>> **
>> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>>
>> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>> **
>>
>>
>
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Dotted line.
The attributes seem swapped to me, it should go {size | type | color}.
You can also shorten the color to three letters to replace the double sets, like
so:
dt a:hover {
border-bottom: 1px dotted #FC0;
}
Quoting Bennie Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> This is what is giving the dotted line...
>
> dt a:hover {
> border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
> }
>
>
> --
> Get Firefox Browser
> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=6908&t=58
>
> Bennie's MIDI Page
> http://bennieshepherd.com/
>
> Athens, Georgia, Relay For Life
> http://www.athensrelay.net/
>
> Montrose, Colorado, Relay For Life
> http://montroserelay.com/
>
> Grand Junction, Colorado, Relay For Life
> http://grandjunctionrelay.org
>
> LZ Friendly Veterans Org
> http://lzfriendly.org
>
>
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Dotted line.
Actually, you are correct, but why? The images aren't a part of the ,
or so why does that effect them? I changed the "border-bottom to
5px and sure enough I got a five-px big dotted line! I'm just not sure of
why the images are effected...
None of the "img a:hover" thoughts work, I've tried them all.
> This is what is giving the dotted line...
>
> dt a:hover {
> border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
> }
>
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Image links display hover
The problem is in your a:hover declaration,
a:hover {
border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
}
the a:hover show a border bottom. Try a create a class for the images.
Best Regards
César García
Consultor independiente
http://www.cesargarcia.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En
nombre de Wayne Godfrey
Enviado el: viernes, 22 de octubre de 2004 20:24
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: [WSG] Image links display hover
Arrrg!! Two steps forward, then ten backward! Why do my image links
display
a hover (dotted line underneath) when I've created the class:
img {
border: none;
{
The particulars, CSS:
The XHTML file:
Everything is validating. I am building and learning (in small steps) at
the
same time and everything was going so well until I applied a link to an
image. What dumb thing have I missed or worse, not learned?
Thanks in advance for any help, I have so enjoyed al the banter of the
group
and more importantly all the great info provided.
wayne
**
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**
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Re: [WSG] Circle menu
Greetings Any idea how to create a circle menu that fit the whole screen with html/css only ?? Do you have an example? Perhaps a site that demonstrates what you're trying to do? Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Image links display hover
Hello Wayne;
you asked
Arrrg!! Two steps forward, then ten backward! Why do my image links
display
a hover (dotted line underneath) when I've created the class:
img {
border: none;
{
.
I think you'll find it's this rule that's causing your problem ...
a:hover {
border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
}
I think it can be corrected like this...
img a:hover {
border-bottom: none;
{
or maybe even this one
img a:hover {
text-decoration: none;
{
HTH's ...
Bill.
William Haggerty
VWH Web Sales & Services
www.vwh.ca
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[WSG] Dotted line.
This is what is giving the dotted line...
dt a:hover {
border-bottom: 1px #FFCC00 dotted;
}
--
Get Firefox Browser
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=6908&t=58
Bennie's MIDI Page
http://bennieshepherd.com/
Athens, Georgia, Relay For Life
http://www.athensrelay.net/
Montrose, Colorado, Relay For Life
http://montroserelay.com/
Grand Junction, Colorado, Relay For Life
http://grandjunctionrelay.org
LZ Friendly Veterans Org
http://lzfriendly.org
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Image links display hover
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne Godfrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> img {
> border: none;
> {
Have you tried :
img a:hover {
border: none;
}
> **
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
[WSG] Image links display hover
Arrrg!! Two steps forward, then ten backward! Why do my image links display
a hover (dotted line underneath) when I've created the class:
img {
border: none;
{
The particulars, CSS:
The XHTML file:
Everything is validating. I am building and learning (in small steps) at the
same time and everything was going so well until I applied a link to an
image. What dumb thing have I missed or worse, not learned?
Thanks in advance for any help, I have so enjoyed al the banter of the group
and more importantly all the great info provided.
wayne
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
There's browse happy campaign - http://browsehappy.com/ which talks about experiences from changing from IE to Opera/Mozilla/Firefox and Safari Trev ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Circle menu
Greetings Any idea how to create a circle menu that fit the whole screen with html/css only ?? -- http://www.W3planet.info/ http://www.EasyHTTP.com/jad/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
I'm actually wondering if there's a site that promotes all browsers that support Web standards. I use Firefox, and will recommend it to anybody who asks, but when I talk about Web standards, I don't like sounding like I'm tooting Firefox's horn, ya know? So is there a "generic" site with some credability that will give people not "in the know" the low-down on the browser choices? ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net "content without clutter" Patrick Lauke wrote: From: Trovster I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox http://firefox.trovster.com Not to sound like a party pooper, but...why not spend energy contributing to the official http://www.spreadfirefox.com, rather than fragmenting the landscape with a separate new site? I'm all for diversity and variety, but I think what we need is a concerted, focussed, single-minded effort rather than lots of small competing ones... IMHO, of course. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb "you are here" links
Yes I see your point. But aren't we just back to looking at default behavior? Your describing a particular function of a particular browser that was created and programmed by the developer of that browser, unless I'm mistaken. What, in theory, is the difference by coding to that feature than say, coding to a custom visual feature of IE 4 circa '97? Extensible means just that, It's up to the coder to determine what, how, and why to extend it. If there are limitations as you described because XYZ browser feature won't work ect, then it's the limits of the current working languages we have. SSML has a 'say-as' or 'interpret-as' which may fill this gap, albeit a long ways away. It appears to me that the other types of rendering such as speech or text-only is caught in the same sad state as the visual browsers were 5 years back. It will probably take that industry a number of years before they become standardized in how they handle data, or have the languages recommendations/standards to work out what is needed and what is not. Again, I think the general concept is for eventually everything to be XML, and interpretation, visual or otherwise, to be decided by the developer. My only point was that now and in the future, you won't be limited. That's not to say you won't have important factors to consider, but you aren't LIMITED by the existing tags. Cheers Ryan Nichols Graphic Design / Web Development Matrixwebs.com 1.800.711.2829 18330 Sutter Blvd. Morgan Hill, CA 95037 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Lauke Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 2:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb "you are here" links > -Original Message- > From: Ryan Nichols > Really a browser doesn't understand what any of the tags are. What you > see are only the browsers default behavior at rendering certain items > it's aware of in the DTD. This was all put in by whoever made the > browser, and is totally up to the browser. Default renderings are not > specified in W3C. This is the forward view of browser-to-document > relationships. All these default behaviors can be overridden by > supplying your own rendering rules (css). You missed my point, but maybe it was just me being cryptic. I'm not talking about the *visual rendering* (default or otherwise, which yes of course can be changed to your heart's content via CSS). What I mean by *understand* is that certain elements trigger behaviours that go well beyond the mere visual aspects, and particularly in conjunction with assistive technology etc you need to stick to an established, agreed syntax. An example: let's say I dream up my own custom DTD which defines the elements ARTICLETITLE and ARTICLESTRAPLINE. I define some CSS to make them *visually* render like H1 and H2 would by default. Great, appearance wise it works as it should (in modern browsers anyway). However, if I'm using a screenreader on top of my OS, and - on a page using this custom DTD - I select the outline view (which lists the document structure by looking at the headings), I get back nothing because the browser and screenreader do not *understand* that ARTICLETITLE and ARTICLESTRAPLINE are structural elements that effectively denote headings for sections on the page. The same kind of thing would also apply, of course, to search engines: they would accept your custom elements (heck, they wouldn't care at all of course), but would treat them as they would any other plain text, not adding any extra weighting to anything because it's a title/heading/etc simply because they don't understand the custom elements defined in the DTD. *That's* what I'm going on about. Visually, yes...you can do whatever you want with your own elements. But for them to actually be useful, they need to stick to an agreed syntax whose rules (for all intents and purposes) have been hardcoded into a browser or user agent. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster External Relations Division Faraday House University of Salford Greater Manchester M5 4WT Tel: +44 (0) 161 295 4779 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] webteam: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Firefox Promotion
> From: Trovster > I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox > http://firefox.trovster.com Not to sound like a party pooper, but...why not spend energy contributing to the official http://www.spreadfirefox.com, rather than fragmenting the landscape with a separate new site? I'm all for diversity and variety, but I think what we need is a concerted, focussed, single-minded effort rather than lots of small competing ones... IMHO, of course. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Firefox Promotion
I have started a little site for the promotion of Firefox http://firefox.trovster.com But as you can see it's pretty thin at the moment. I have added my favourite extensions, with links and short descriptions to the "customise" section, and links to other resources in the "links" section (funny that!). I am looking for some help in writing some motivational words in the "about" and "why" sections. I have outlined some sections I would like in the "why" section but I would like some help writing it. Also, send me information on more articles and favourite extensions/themes etc. If anyone can help, you can either email me personally or keep it on the list. Thanks Trevor Morris -- http://www.trovster.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] silly shifting problem
/me slaps his forehead. See what I told you? I've been staring at this too long today. :/ Thanks. *walks away in shame* ~john russ - maxdesign wrote: Ummm... would that be the scroll bar? A centred design will shift to the left on pages that are long - 25 pixels or so, to make room for the scroll bar. If you jump between a long and a short page... Well you get the idea... :) Russ Hi, group. I'm having what seems to be a "brain block" and I can't figure out why my design is shifting slightly to the side from one page to another. Everything is identical, except for what's inside the "content" ID. The site is at http://www.drzeus.net You'll notice that the homepage is slightly more to the right than the other pages. Can anybody help? Thanks... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] silly shifting problem
I'll mention http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/49/ but hope that it won't lead to the usual purist's outrage scream (unless Lachlan's about) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] silly shifting problem
Must .. Not .. Look .. At .. Scrollbar ;) That's the only thing that makes it shift here on IE6/FF 1 .K -Original Message- From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: vrijdag 22 oktober 2004 13:44 To: web standards group Subject: [WSG] silly shifting problem Hi, group. I'm having what seems to be a "brain block" and I can't figure out why my design is shifting slightly to the side from one page to another. Everything is identical, except for what's inside the "content" ID. The site is at http://www.drzeus.net You'll notice that the homepage is slightly more to the right than the other pages. Can anybody help? Thanks... -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net "content without clutter" ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] silly shifting problem
Hi John,
> I'm having what seems to be a "brain block" and I can't figure out why
> my design is shifting slightly to the side from one page to another.
> Everything is identical, except for what's inside the "content" ID.
Are you viewing using Mozilla? If so, it's because the other pages have a
vertical scroll bar and the centred design is being shifted to take account.
The best hack around I've found is to ensure there is always a scrollbar.
Try putting this just before you close your body tag:
And this in the stylesheet:
#mozscroll {
bottom:-1px;
position:absolute;
top:0px;
visibility:hidden;
}
I hope this helps.
All the best,
--
Ian Fenn
Chopstix Media Ltd
http://www.chopstixmedia.com/
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Re: [WSG] silly shifting problem
Ummm... would that be the scroll bar? A centred design will shift to the left on pages that are long - 25 pixels or so, to make room for the scroll bar. If you jump between a long and a short page... Well you get the idea... :) Russ > Hi, group. > > I'm having what seems to be a "brain block" and I can't figure out why > my design is shifting slightly to the side from one page to another. > Everything is identical, except for what's inside the "content" ID. > > The site is at http://www.drzeus.net > > You'll notice that the homepage is slightly more to the right than the > other pages. Can anybody help? > > Thanks... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] silly shifting problem
Hi, group. I'm having what seems to be a "brain block" and I can't figure out why my design is shifting slightly to the side from one page to another. Everything is identical, except for what's inside the "content" ID. The site is at http://www.drzeus.net You'll notice that the homepage is slightly more to the right than the other pages. Can anybody help? Thanks... -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net "content without clutter" ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb "you are here" links
> -Original Message- > From: Ryan Nichols > Really a browser doesn't understand what any of the tags are. What you > see are only the browsers default behavior at rendering certain items > it's aware of in the DTD. This was all put in by whoever made the > browser, and is totally up to the browser. Default renderings are not > specified in W3C. This is the forward view of browser-to-document > relationships. All these default behaviors can be overridden by > supplying your own rendering rules (css). You missed my point, but maybe it was just me being cryptic. I'm not talking about the *visual rendering* (default or otherwise, which yes of course can be changed to your heart's content via CSS). What I mean by *understand* is that certain elements trigger behaviours that go well beyond the mere visual aspects, and particularly in conjunction with assistive technology etc you need to stick to an established, agreed syntax. An example: let's say I dream up my own custom DTD which defines the elements ARTICLETITLE and ARTICLESTRAPLINE. I define some CSS to make them *visually* render like H1 and H2 would by default. Great, appearance wise it works as it should (in modern browsers anyway). However, if I'm using a screenreader on top of my OS, and - on a page using this custom DTD - I select the outline view (which lists the document structure by looking at the headings), I get back nothing because the browser and screenreader do not *understand* that ARTICLETITLE and ARTICLESTRAPLINE are structural elements that effectively denote headings for sections on the page. The same kind of thing would also apply, of course, to search engines: they would accept your custom elements (heck, they wouldn't care at all of course), but would treat them as they would any other plain text, not adding any extra weighting to anything because it's a title/heading/etc simply because they don't understand the custom elements defined in the DTD. *That's* what I'm going on about. Visually, yes...you can do whatever you want with your own elements. But for them to actually be useful, they need to stick to an agreed syntax whose rules (for all intents and purposes) have been hardcoded into a browser or user agent. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster External Relations Division Faraday House University of Salford Greater Manchester M5 4WT Tel: +44 (0) 161 295 4779 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] webteam: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
