[WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.

2005-08-15 Thread SunUp
My style sheet contains this line: .clearfix {display: inline-block;} When I validate I get one error: Invalid number : display inline-block is not a display value : inline-block The word display links to http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-display. That's CSS2, right? I then

Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM

2005-08-15 Thread Gez Lemon
Hi Jan, Maybe strange questions - Do the users of screen readers have flash? (I have no idea for a reason why they shloud) Some screen readers sit on top of browsers like IE. If IE has Flash embedded in it, and the Flash has been made accessible (see http://www.webaim.org/techniques/flash/),

RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.

2005-08-15 Thread Jason Turnbull
CSS 2 - W3C recommendation CSS 2.1 - Working draft Until CSS 2.1 becomes a recommendation, which shouldn't be too long (deadline for comments was July), the W3C validator will use what ever the current recommendation is. Regards Jason ** The

Re: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.

2005-08-15 Thread Ben Ward
CSS 2 - W3C recommendation CSS 2.1 - Working draft Until CSS 2.1 becomes a recommendation, which shouldn't be too long (deadline for comments was July), the W3C validator will use what ever the current recommendation is. Just to be a touch pedantic, CSS2.1 only needs to become a 'candidate

[WSG] CSS rollover with dynamic drop down menu

2005-08-15 Thread Stuart Sherwood
I'm trying to combine a CSS image rollover with a drop down menu. Everything is working fine bar the css image rollover. For some reason the a:hover is not being read. I've probably missed something very simple but just can't see it. http://www.re-entity.com/Menu/index.htm

Re: [WSG] CSS rollover with dynamic drop down menu

2005-08-15 Thread Bert Doorn
G'day I'm trying to combine a CSS image rollover with a drop down menu. Everything is working fine bar the css image rollover. For some reason the a:hover is not being read. I've probably missed something very simple but just can't see it. Your HTML: lia id=Home title=Home

[WSG] Q: cross browser submit button image replacement

2005-08-15 Thread Rex Chung
Hi all, Anyone know what is the best practise for image replacement with rollover states for submit buttons. I tried adding onmouseover class change javascript with: 1. background image for input type=submit / but - doesnt work for safari, value attribute shows up 2. text-indent=-1000em for

[WSG] Internationalization Articles Published

2005-08-15 Thread Richard Ishida
The W3C Internationalization GEO (Guidelines, Education Outreach) Working Group publishes information to help people understand and use international aspects of W3C technologies. These articles are likely to be useful to WSG folks. In the past month, the group published - Using

Stupid Questions? (was RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.)

2005-08-15 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
SunUp wrote: I do realise this is probably a very stupid question, and it's more than a little scary asking a stupid question on this list, but I'll wear the result if it means I can understand what I've done wrong. Thanks, sunny. Goodness Sunny, There really is no such thing as a stupid

RE: [WSG] Q: cross browser submit button image replacement

2005-08-15 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\)
Rex, Safari won't let you style at all. Take a look at what I did on www.whatcanido.com.au for the search fields top-left. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rex

[WSG] Forcing Display of Block

2005-08-15 Thread Alan Gutierrez
Very simply: div pHello./p p/p /div Is there any way to have the second p appear without inserting a non-breaking space? Curious. -- Alan Gutierrez - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://engrm.com/blogometer/index.html -

Re: [WSG] Forcing Display of Block

2005-08-15 Thread Bert Doorn
G'day Very simply: div pHello./p p/p /div Is there any way to have the second p appear without inserting a non-breaking space? Question: What's the (semantic or otherwise) meaning of the empty paragraph? If it's only there to add extra white-space, why not

RE: Stupid Questions? (was RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.)

2005-08-15 Thread Patrick Lauke
John Foliot - WATS.ca There is no such thing as a stupid question (although occasionally we will see stupid responses...) You tell 'em John :) P __ Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk

[WSG] RE: Stupid Questions? (was RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.)

2005-08-15 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Patrick Lauke wrote: John Foliot - WATS.ca There is no such thing as a stupid question (although occasionally we will see stupid responses...) You tell 'em John :) P As a point of clarification, when I say stupid responses, I meant in the form of condescending or mean responses, rather

Re: [WSG] Table header

2005-08-15 Thread Douglas Clifton
Why stop there? Here's the skeleton of a two column table with summary, caption, header, body and footer. Note that the first column is designed to be a label for the data in the second. Also note the placement of the tfoot element in the sequence. This is important. table id= class= summary=

Re: [WSG] Forcing Display of Block

2005-08-15 Thread Alan Gutierrez
* Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-08-15 10:18]: G'day Very simply: div pHello./p p/p /div Is there any way to have the second p appear without inserting a non-breaking space? Question: What's the (semantic or otherwise) meaning of the empty

[WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? I personally find it annoying to open a pdf document in the

[WSG] blog business summit

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All Is there anyone on this list that is going to the blog business summit in San Francisco this week? I'd like to meet and say hello to any fellow list members. http://www.blogbusinesssummit.com/index.htm?businesslogs Ted www.tdrake.net

Re: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links

2005-08-15 Thread Paul Collins
Floating the link left as well as display:block should make the image sit at the end of the text, as opposed to spaning the width of the page. This can cause problems in a few older browsers such as Netscape 6, as once you float something left it is no longer a block element. Hope that

RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Paul I should have mentioned that the link normally appears within paragraphs of text. It will sometimes appear as a link inside a list. Floating is an interesting option for other applications. Thanks Ted - Floating the link left as well as display:block should make the

[WSG] table-cell and ie

2005-08-15 Thread Janelle Clemens
Please help as I am starting to go bald from pulling by hair out over this issue. Is there anyway (hack) to get Internet Exlporer to abide by the table-cell property? Or is there a max-height hack for IE? :-) Janelle

Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread Duncan Stigwood
On 12/08/05, Brian Grimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This forum has unfortunately degraded from a useful resource in regards to properly writing code for use by those with disabilities to just another HTML help group... Are the disabed really the main priority when it comes to web standards?

RE: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Here is something to remember, even if disabled visitors are not your main concern. The biggest blind user in the world is Google. Code your pages correctly, delivering friendly pages to the disabled and Google, and your customers will benefit in many ways. It's not just about doing what is

Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread XStandard
Hi Duncan, Is there really that many disabled internet users? Accessibility is about usability for everyone, not any specific interest group. Millions of users on the Web don't consider themselves disabled but use features that we incorrectly consider as accessibility only features. These

Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread Kim Kruse
I can't remember where I read it but the article claimed that there is at least 750 million disabled people worldwide. (I know not all of them are blind etc and is probably not using the Internet... but as Vlad say Accessibility is about usability for everyone, not any specific interest group

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Damian Sweeney
Hi Ted, I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal with different file types according to their preference (open the

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Bruce
Myself I would say when possible have an alternate txt or html file. I strongly discourage pdf on websites unless it is a zip file for download. As stated by Damian they are annoying for users with modems, and I find them annoying at all times. Keep pdf's for printing and inter office. Bruce

RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Damian Thanks for the feedback. We use CSS to place an icon in front of the link to illustrate the file format as well as the (filename.pdf, 35k) designation. Is there anyone out there that supports opening in a new window? If not, it looks like I will suggest we keep it behavior-free.

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Gary Menzel
There is a flip-side to the no new window recommendation.. Many of our users are very computer illiterate and giving them too many options confuses them. We do open our PDF documents in a new window and never have any complaints about it. We DO get complaints, though, when things are too

RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I fall in line with Gary. I'm savvy enough to right-click on pdf links but when I forget to do it, I'm aggrevated by the browser having to load the reader software. I would be happy to have it open a new window. This is for an intranet site, but I think the discussion is valid for all

RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Paul Bennett
I'm not familiar with it being a 'web standard' not to open a new window for a link. Can someone enlighten me? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints

RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
We have tested sites with both different behaviours on users and in most cases if the PDF would open in the same window the inexperienced users would accidentally close the window and as a result lose the website they were working with. It seems to be already in the users' minds that a different

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread standards
I completely concur with Gary as I have these types of files open in a new window for the very reasons he stated. Additionally, I've had users report that they close the window thinking that they're exiting the document, but they're actually closing the browser. Respectfully, Mario There is a

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz
I fall in line with Gary. I do to, it just makes sense I use this: onclick=window.open(this.href); return false; instead of target=_blank. This short script doesn't name the window, so it should spawn multiple popups. I'd use: onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false; As a side

Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM

2005-08-15 Thread Gez Lemon
Hi Jan, On 15/08/05, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some screen readers sit on top of browsers like IE. If IE has Flash embedded in it, and the Flash has been made accessible (see http://www.webaim.org/techniques/flash/), then it's exposed to the screen reader. The reason that screen

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Gez Lemon
Hi Thierry, This short script doesn't name the window, so it should spawn multiple popups. I'd use: onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false; As a side note, some blockers kill these popups. The window.open function returns true if successful, otherwise false. You could use the

Re: [WSG] Q: cross browser submit button image replacement

2005-08-15 Thread Rex Chung
background-image, text-indent=-1000em for button type=submit submit/button this works for all browsers except onmouseover doesnt seem to work for IE. On 8/15/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rex, Safari won't let you style at all. Take a look at what I did on

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Andy Kirkwood | Motive
Title: Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy Hi there, Could be that this discussion has drifted toward usability rather than accessibility. Accessibility considerations would be ensuring that users are advised of what will happened when they activate the link, either than

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gez Lemon wrote: Hi Thierry, This short script doesn't name the window, so it should spawn multiple popups. I'd use: onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false; As a side note, some blockers kill these popups. The window.open function returns true if successful, otherwise

[WSG] Applying css styles to html tag

2005-08-15 Thread Andrew Ivin
Hi all, I've been looking around this list, W3C and other online sources, but can't find any info on applying styles to the html tag. I apologise if this has been covered on this list before, but is there any reference on css styling the html tag, and more specifically, how various browsers will

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Jan Brasna
I use this: onclick=window.open(this.href); return false; instead of target=_blank. +1 for onclick=return !window.open(this.href) - successfully tested with some blockers etc. - better than returnig false everytime (nothing happens then if JS is enabled but the window can't be opened). Or

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Ben Ward
On the whole, I'm very much in the 'user decide' camp. However, there is some argument for opening PDFs and other 'not-normally-browser-native' media types in new windows (citing the confusing ways in which plug ins behave). Personally, I like everything to download and be opened by a native

Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread heretic
Are the disabed really the main priority when it comes to web standards? Not exactly, they're just one of many groups that benefit. They happen to benefit quite a lot, of course.. :) Standards benefit pretty much everyone, whether they realise it or not. Standards compliant sites are

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread heretic
Hi, We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? I view PDF, .MS Office documents etc as *non web content*. That is, they

Re: [WSG] Applying css styles to html tag

2005-08-15 Thread Jan Brasna
any reference on css styling the html tag, and more specifically, how various browsers will render styles applied to html? Howdy. The styling is almost the same as the styling of body is - with the XML way of parsing XHTML files there's no more the magic behavior of body element like

Re: [WSG] Screen readers, flash, DOM

2005-08-15 Thread Jan Brasna
Sorry, I didn't mean to be patronising. Oh, I didn't feel it this way, I really appreciate it, I'm sorry if it sounded ungrateful. I've no idea if that's typical. I was under the impression that IE comes with the Flash plugin installed by default, but I don't know that for sure. I've never

Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Jan Brasna
If I'm sure the PDF is intended for downloading, not for direct viewing in browser I force its download with headers (like Content-Type: application/x-download etc.) -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The

[WSG] Hot Topic: HTML design [was Reason for leaving]

2005-08-15 Thread Terrence Wood
Patrick Lauke wrote: Well folks, here's a crazy idea: let's start some good discussions on the principles of web standards then. We need a bit of a catalyst to get things started. Any hot topics anybody's got at the moment? With the recent departure of a member who found this forum boring I

[WSG] RE: Hot Topic: HTML design

2005-08-15 Thread Paul Bennett
Great topic! I had some experience using xml / xslt earlier this year. I was fiddling with w3schools xslt tutorial which uses client-side xslt transformation and I finally saw what all the xml fuss was about. The content could be marked up meaningfully (according to the actual data) then xslt

[WSG] RE: Hot Topic: HTML design

2005-08-15 Thread Rei Paki
Great topic! I had some experience using xml / xslt earlier this year. I was fiddling with w3schools xslt tutorial which uses client-side xslt transformation and I finally saw what all the xml fuss was about. The content could be marked up meaningfully (according to the actual data) then