[WSG] safari display issue : help please!

2007-08-23 Thread Andrew Harris
Hi all, hope you can help. I have a problem with a page in safari.

I won't bore you with the backstory, but this is from a large and
complex template deployment over a range of websites that I have
little control over. To solve a problem that kept cropping up due to
Block Formatting Context, I used a well documented fix: set the
containing div to display:table;

All seemed well, didn't seem to break anything, tested, rolled it
out... zap! problem!

Here is a completely stripped out version of the page, displaying the issue.
http://www.woowoowoo.com/safari-bug/formbug.html
In all browsers there is (should be) a form. In Safari, there is not.
It just vanishes!

I can fix it two ways:
- wrap the form in a div
- remove the display:table; rule on the enclosing div
neither of which are very palatable in the context of the site.

I would prefer to find some way with CSS to make Safari display the
form as it should. Thus far, I have had no luck - any takers?

Worth noting that safari 3 displays the page correctly, but that's not
much help in the here and now.

cheers.

-- 
Andrew Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ * ~~~


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Out of office was( [WSG] safari display issue : help please! )

2007-08-23 Thread Sarah Hughes
 
I am away from the office, returning 27th August. If your email is urgent 
please call 02 8507 9900, email Joanna Vallas, or Chris Collins.

Thank you,
Sarah

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---BeginMessage---
Hi all, hope you can help. I have a problem with a page in safari.

I won't bore you with the backstory, but this is from a large and
complex template deployment over a range of websites that I have
little control over. To solve a problem that kept cropping up due to
Block Formatting Context, I used a well documented fix: set the
containing div to display:table;

All seemed well, didn't seem to break anything, tested, rolled it
out... zap! problem!

Here is a completely stripped out version of the page, displaying the issue.
http://www.woowoowoo.com/safari-bug/formbug.html
In all browsers there is (should be) a form. In Safari, there is not.
It just vanishes!

I can fix it two ways:
- wrap the form in a div
- remove the display:table; rule on the enclosing div
neither of which are very palatable in the context of the site.

I would prefer to find some way with CSS to make Safari display the
form as it should. Thus far, I have had no luck - any takers?

Worth noting that safari 3 displays the page correctly, but that's not
much help in the here and now.

cheers.

-- 
Andrew Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ * ~~~


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---End Message---


RE: [WSG] When is invalid CSS okay?

2007-08-23 Thread michael.brockington
I think that a more appropriate example would be using:
-moz-border-radius   
Any validator should tell you that this is non-standard, but it is up to
you to decide whether or not to use it.

Regards,
Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] When is invalid CSS okay?


On 23 Aug 2007, at 3:07 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:

 After all, if I write about the Sheraton Centre in 
Manhattan, my U.S. 
 spell checker tells me I misspelled Centre. So do I change the 
 spelling? I think not.

Hmm. Interesting example. 'Sheraton Center' is a placename - a 
proper noun.

Have you ever tried to use 'text-align: centre'?

N
___
omnivision. websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/



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[WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Bob Schwartz

Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message  
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested  
file


My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all  
works fine.


The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users  
either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs,  
or some Norton firewall-like application.


However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread David Pietersen
Works fine for me...

IE 7.0.6000.16512 on Vista Ultimate




On 8/23/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Some users have complained that when they go to this page

 http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

 and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message
 stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested
 file

 My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all
 works fine.

 The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users
 either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs,
 or some Norton firewall-like application.

 However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

 Thanks,

 Bob



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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Spirit Q.9 Gaming
It's IE 7 bug i think, not ur web bug. I also sometime meet it when i use IE
7, rarely ...


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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread John Faulds
I can download them OK and am running both hardware and software firewall  
with Avast antivirus.


On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:24:08 +1000, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message  
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested  
file


My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all works  
fine.


The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users either  
have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs, or some  
Norton firewall-like application.


However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Kevin Lennon

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message 
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested 
file


My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all works 
fine.


The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users either 
have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs, or some 
Norton firewall-like application.


However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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I tried it in both IE7 and Firefox and it seems to work fine here.


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RE: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Steve Green
I have IE7 on Windows XP SP2 and all the Zip files download ok. Some of them
contain Word documents, and the machine opens these in WordPad because I
don't have Word on it. I get the error message Unable to load graphics
conversion filter, which is probably to be expected. The document still
opens if I select Yes when prompted to continue. If I select No, I get a
message An unexpected error occurred..., which is actually to be expected.

I don't have any 'funny settings', AV, firewall software or anything like
that, and suspect your presumption is correct.

Steve
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Schwartz
Sent: 23 August 2007 12:24
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] IE  help

Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message stating
something like Explorer is unable to download the requested file

My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all works fine.

The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users either have
some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs, or some Norton
firewall-like application.

However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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[WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Nick Roper

Hi,

A client would like functionality similar to that used on 
istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a larger 
image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.


Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser 
way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.


Thanks,

Nick

--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements



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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Spirit Q.9 Gaming
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click

Can you use this?

On 8/23/07, Nick Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 A client would like functionality similar to that used on
 istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a larger
 image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.

 Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser
 way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.

 Thanks,

 Nick

 --
 Nick Roper
 partner
 logical elements



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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Jason Grant
Or even this:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/lightbox

Regards,

Jason
www.flexewebs.com

On 8/23/07, Spirit Q.9 Gaming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click

 Can you use this?

 On 8/23/07, Nick Roper  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  A client would like functionality similar to that used on
  istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a larger
  image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.
 
  Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser
  way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Nick
 
  --
  Nick Roper
  partner
  logical elements
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Nick Roper
That's cool, but I wanted to try and avoid having to use 'real-estate' 
on the page. A popup allows the larger image to display without having 
to allocate permanent space for it in the layout.


Thanks for the link, as I'm sure that will come in handy anyway.

Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click

Can you use this?

On 8/23/07, *Nick Roper*  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi,

A client would like functionality similar to that used on
istockphoto.com http://istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup'
window is displayed with a larger
image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.

Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser
way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.

Thanks,

Nick

--
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partner
logical elements



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logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php  mysql approved partner
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: +44 1749 676798
   www: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34 Chamberlain Street, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ
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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Barney Carroll

Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:
 http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click

 Can you use this?

Stu Nicholls has done a few :hover lightboxes:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/lightbox.html

If you want to be really flash (without flash, naturally)...

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/image_magnifier2.html


Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Spirit Q.9 Gaming
That lightbox and the image will disappear when we move out the mouse though
clicked, should use combo?

On 8/23/07, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:
  http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click
 
  Can you use this?

 Stu Nicholls has done a few :hover lightboxes:

 http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/lightbox.html

 If you want to be really flash (without flash, naturally)...

 http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/image_magnifier2.html


 Regards,
 Barney


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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Barney Carroll

Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:
That lightbox and the image will disappear when we move out the mouse 
though clicked, should use combo?


What iStockPhoto does is a no-click interface where you just hover over 
things to expand them and off to make them disappear. iStock's thing 
uses javascript to keep the box positioned relative to the cursor, but 
that's just extra unnecessary hassle (Stu's methods can be used with JS 
turned off – hence a lot more accessible), and besides I think it's 
actually very irritating to have the text and image you're focussing on 
move about.



Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Spirit Q.9 Gaming
i just mean it closes whole the gallery ... instead just close the pop up
image.

On 8/23/07, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:
  That lightbox and the image will disappear when we move out the mouse
  though clicked, should use combo?

 What iStockPhoto does is a no-click interface where you just hover over
 things to expand them and off to make them disappear. iStock's thing
 uses javascript to keep the box positioned relative to the cursor, but
 that's just extra unnecessary hassle (Stu's methods can be used with JS
 turned off – hence a lot more accessible), and besides I think it's
 actually very irritating to have the text and image you're focussing on
 move about.


 Regards,
 Barney


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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Mike at Green-Beast.com
How about this: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/css_map_pop.php? This 
could be adapted easily I think.

Cheers.
Mike Cherim


- Original Message - 
From: Nick Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover


Hi,

A client would like functionality similar to that used on
istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a larger
image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.

Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser
way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.

Thanks,

Nick

-- 
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements



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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Nick Roper

Thanks guys - excellent stuff.

Nick

Barney Carroll wrote:

Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote:
  http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/gallery_click
 
  Can you use this?

Stu Nicholls has done a few :hover lightboxes:

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/lightbox.html

If you want to be really flash (without flash, naturally)...

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/image_magnifier2.html


Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] When is invalid CSS okay?

2007-08-23 Thread Rob Crowther

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

The hiding effect gained by 'CC' is used by many to justify hacking
and to declare their solutions valid - because the validator doesn't
complain.


It is ultimately laziness, but I don't want to have to expend the mental 
effort to distinguish between invalid CSS that is the result of a 
mistake and invalid CSS that is the result of hacking around IE.  Or put 
another way, I don't want to get into the habit of being used to seeing 
my CSS not validate with the automatic test.


 This works for all browsers - with a bit of care.

I assume here you mean 'all current major desktop browsers'?

Rob


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[WSG] 1to1 markup suggestions

2007-08-23 Thread Brian Cummiskey

i have some data

1 | A
2 | B

and so on in a 1-to-1

I'm considering using a DL as A defines the symbol 1
but at the same time it is tabular data.


Thoughts?


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Re: [WSG] 1to1 markup suggestions

2007-08-23 Thread Brian Cummiskey

Koen Willems wrote:

To my opinion it would depend on the fact if there is only a relation
between the data or if one is defining the other.

  

There is no hard correlation between them.

the data would be similar to this:

@ |  at
$ | dollar sign


Going like that, its easy to see that column B defines column A symbol.

But, along the same lines, it could be grouped with a thead like

thSymbol/ththMeaning/th




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RE: [WSG] 1to1 markup suggestions

2007-08-23 Thread Koen Willems
To my opinion it would depend on the fact if there is only a relation
between the data or if one is defining the other.

Koen Willems


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Namens Brian Cummiskey
Verzonden: donderdag 23 augustus 2007 19:48
Aan: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Onderwerp: [WSG] 1to1 markup suggestions


i have some data

1 | A
2 | B

and so on in a 1-to-1

I'm considering using a DL as A defines the symbol 1
but at the same time it is tabular data.


Thoughts?


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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Bob Schwartz

Thanks to all who responded.



Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message  
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the  
requested file


My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all  
works fine.


The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users  
either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs,  
or some Norton firewall-like application.


However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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Re: [WSG] When is invalid CSS okay?

2007-08-23 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Rob Crowther wrote:

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
The hiding effect gained by 'CC' is used by many to justify 
hacking and to declare their solutions valid - because the 
validator doesn't complain.


It is ultimately laziness, but I don't want to have to expend the 
mental effort to distinguish between invalid CSS that is the result 
of a mistake and invalid CSS that is the result of hacking around IE.

 Or put another way, I don't want to get into the habit of being used
 to seeing my CSS not validate with the automatic test.


Well, since valid doesn't mean applied according to standard, I have
to proofread my CSS anyway. I can't rely on the validator more than on
the spell-checker in the email client I use, so I do indeed distinguish
between mistakes and intentional hacking - regardless of whether the
latter are valid or not.

It would be nice if the validator would flag nonsensical combinations
of properties/values, so I could see at a glance where combinations like...
Element {
float: left;
margin: 6px;
display: inline;
}
...have been used, since valid combinations like that only serve the
purpose of killing an old browser bug. The usefulness of the validator
reports would be so much greater then.


This works for all browsers - with a bit of care.


I assume here you mean 'all current major desktop browsers'?


One has to draw the line somewhere, but I often check beyond the major
desktop browsers if I apply one of the potentially more disturbing
workarounds. How far I go depends on the case, the major user-group and
the client.
Whether or not a disturbance is acceptable, also depends on how
standard compliant, implicit also how current, the disturbed
browser is. That outweighs how major a browser in need of a workaround
is - in most cases.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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RE: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Ted Drake
I think it was Jeremy Keith that railed against having CSS do what
JavaScript should do and vice versa.

This is going beyond what CSS is good for. You'll have inconsistent
behaviors, require the user to download invisible images, and more. 

I'd suggest looking at the container library with the YUI. You'll get great
control of the hover activity and the positioning of the popup/div. You can
also use AJAX to grab the image dynamically or use the YUI lazy loader to
save the initial download expense of the invisible image.

http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/container/

Ted 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Roper
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

Thanks guys - excellent stuff.

Nick
 




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Re: [WSG] safari display issue : help please!

2007-08-23 Thread Kit Grose

On 23/08/2007, at 5.04 PM, Andrew Harris wrote:


Hi all, hope you can help. I have a problem with a page in safari.
...
Here is a completely stripped out version of the page, displaying  
the issue.

http://www.woowoowoo.com/safari-bug/formbug.html
In all browsers there is (should be) a form. In Safari, there is not.
It just vanishes!

I can fix it two ways:
- wrap the form in a div
- remove the display:table; rule on the enclosing div
neither of which are very palatable in the context of the site.



Hi Andrew,

The issue is that you can't technically use the display: table  
property that way. Safari demands that for every display: table you  
need a display: table-row and display: table-cell. Your example is  
something akin to the following old-school HTML:


table
div.../div
form.../form
/table

Which is obviously unusual. Beware, also; the display: table property  
doesn't work at all in any version of IE. Check out http:// 
www.quirksmode.org/css/display.html#table for more info.


Cheers,

Kit Grose
iQmultimedia

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Re: [WSG] safari display issue : help please!

2007-08-23 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh


On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Kit Grose wrote:


I can fix it two ways:
- wrap the form in a div
- remove the display:table; rule on the enclosing div
neither of which are very palatable in the context of the site.



Hi Andrew,

The issue is that you can't technically use the display: table  
property that way.


Yes, you can. Per
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#anonymous-boxes
an UA will/should insert a table-row and table-cell element.

But Safari 2.0.x is buggy in this (and  Gecko -Firefox- is buggy the  
other way around, sometimes inserting too many table-rows).


The best solution is
1. use another technique to generate a new block formatting context  
on the div where you currently use display:table. Using  
'overflow:hidden' is a better solution in many cases.

2. or: wrap your form in an extra div.

I'd go for the first solution, as it will avoid potential issues with  
Gecko browsers.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com





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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Jermayn Parker
Just a question, 
does it have to be enlarged on hover?? That can be pretty messy and
ugly if you mouse over it by accident. I would think onclick would be a
better option with arrows to go to the next image etc like lightbox.



 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23/08/2007 10:23:53 pm 
Hi,

A client would like functionality similar to that used on 
istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a larger

image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail image. e.g.

Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works cross-browser

way? Any pointers or references to example code gratefully received.

Thanks,

Nick

-- 
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements



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Re: [WSG] Popup 'box' on hover

2007-08-23 Thread Jixor - Stephen I
I would create a css solution, with some unobtrusive javascript to 
enhance the functionality (such as to make it follow the mouse, animate 
in/out, etc.) Even then if the user has IE5 with JS turned off clicking 
the image could always take them to an enlarged view.


I would make a link positioned relative and then place a span or 
something in the link that will have position absolute and display none, 
then on a:hover it could have display block. So you would have a basic 
enlargement, from there you could use js to replace your basic css 
driven enlargement with something a little more fancy.


Nick Roper wrote:

Hi,

A client would like functionality similar to that used on 
istockphoto.com - i.e. that a 'popup' window is displayed with a 
larger image and some text when the user hovers over a thumbnail 
image. e.g.


Can I do this with CSS in a standards-compliant and works 
cross-browser way? Any pointers or references to example code 
gratefully received.


Thanks,

Nick





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Re: [WSG] IE help

2007-08-23 Thread Darrin at Jade Web and Print
Darrin Bob, I have 2 machines running WinXP SP 2 and IE 7 - both 
downloaded all files with no prob.

cheers, D.


Bob Schwartz wrote:


Some users have complained that when they go to this page

http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html

and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message  
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested  
file


My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has IE 6 on it and all  
works fine.


The links to the files are absolute, so my guess is these users  
either have some funny settings in thier IE 7, anti-virus programs,  
or some Norton firewall-like application.


However if someone could have a look in IE 7 I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bob



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