Re: [WSG] Great Radio National Podcast on Deafness
Is there a transcript of that podcast for those of us who ARE Deaf? Leslie Riggs ABC's Radio National Late Night Live program has produced a really insightful interview about Deafness. I think it's well worth a listen and might give you a good insight into deaf culture and the medical model of deafness in Australia and internationally. Deaf Culture Summary Is deafness a disadvantage or a different way of being? Members of the deaf community and medical doctors discuss the notion of a distinct 'deaf culture'. This program was originally broadcast in 1993 and won a Human Rights Award. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/feeds/lnl_20060310.mp3 25 MB runs for approximately 1 hour Lisa Herrod Senior Consultant, Usability ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site
The only thing I don't understand is how on earth does a blind person pick out items that rely on a photograph (clothes etc)... If you go to Target's home page, you will find, in the left column what appear to be headlines describing sale and special items. They are images - and there is no Alt text. Blind people do shop :-). There are varying degrees of blindness, too, so someone looking at one of those images may go, Oh, wait, is that a red jumper or a parka? Alt text can help in that respect, if the user has a good text-to-speech tool installed. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Claiming compliance when a site doesn't' actually comply
I'd like to know about a site that is XHTML 1.0 Transitional; what would be the purpose in that, and would you say that should be served as application-type/xhtml+xml, or text/html? A lot of the reading I've done has been rather confusing, particularly when I go and see sites served as XHTML 1.0 Transitional and text/html. Does that mean those sites are 'violating the validation law'? What's a person to do? When is it appropriate to use one of the XHTML DTDs and when to use HTML 4.01, and what about those XHTML Transitional DTDs? I guess I'm looking for a bit of a summarization clarification of this concept. Leslie Riggs Maybe, but if a site that is XHTML served as text/html were actually served correctly as application-type/xhtml+xml, any validation errors would cause the site to STOP working entirely. So this kind of can't win them all attitude is okay when we are talking about html 4, but with xhtml, it's not acceptable. When I see an html 4 site with validation errors, I don't mind at all, but when I see an xhtml (or wannabe xhtml) site with validation errors, I think that's a problem. I know it sounds elitist, but in the xhtml world, validation is the law. This is why on my latest project, a wordpress template for a friend of mine, I am designing the template to be html 4. Even all those wordpress-generated img / tags are valid in html 4, and I don't have to lose sleep over my friend's mistakes when she uses html in her posts, because I know the site will still work. As much as I like seeing a decent adoption of xhtml by so many websites, I still think many of them should roll back to html 4, if they aren't going to bother to fix their errors. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Developer Extension 1.0 Released
If you already have the toolbar installed, won't you get it via check for updates? That's how I found it. Leslie Riggs Chris Pendrick recently released Web Developer Extension 1.0. http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ He has fixed some bugs, added some features, and changed some stuff. I would definitely upgrade soon. If you don't use it, download it. This is one of the most used tools that I have in my toolbox. More info about the release on Chris Pendrick's blog: http://chrispederick.com/blog/2005/12/31/web-developer-10/ Sincerely, Justin Thorp ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best Web Standards thing I learnt in 2005.
You see, THAT is the best thing I learnt in 2005 - that there are always more things to learn! Just getting my toes wet in microformats, and understanding a bit more about XHTML... Leslie Riggs Christopher, + getting into microformats I guess I missed something along the way. Where can I find out more about this? Bob ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
My biggest reason for following standards originally was selfish: vastly increased ease of maintainability. When you separate content from presentation, you can change the presentation aspect of the site once and it goes into effect across the entire site. I really, really liked that aspect of it. Pages load faster thanks to smaller file sizes, and site visitors notice that. There are other benefits, but those were what convinced me. Leslie Riggs None of those. I just mentioned that I was unable to convice my friend to change his ways and his strongest reason not to was his (fairly complicated) site that worked just fine in a lot of browsers which he built without jumping through any of the hoops I go through trying to get a complicated layout to work in as many browsers. I'm all for standards and everything else this list is about, but I do feel we might be spending a lot of time preparing for a State Dinner when what we are really going to attend is a come-as-you- are BBQ in the backyard. On 04/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. A friend just got back into the web design game after a long time away. He sent me his site: pure HTML 2.0, no doctype lots of tables and the usual tag soup. I mentioned to him that things had changed and he should get with the modern way of doing things. To his various questions as to why, I gave all the right answers, but in the end he said if it works, why change? I viewed his site in all my various MAC WIN browsers, it worked just fine in all of them. Are you asking for the benefits of standards-based design or the ROI of it? It's on like 100 trillions of documents and books written since 2001. Give him a Zeldman or Cederholm book for Christmas :-) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://logicola.simplelogica.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards, accessability and validation?
We are hoping to have this available online as a Quicktime file soon. When it is, it's definitely worth showing to people. Jonathan is a wonderful speaker and funny speaker, and I guarantee that no one will see his presentation and go away feeling the same about accessibility! Mike for Web Standards New Zealand / Wellington WSG ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Um, I'm kind of afraid to ask, but would there be any captioning on that for us poor deaf folk who won't hear this but do work for hearing clients? Leslie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Cingular and Verizon go Web Standard
Cingular: Nice job, but not valid - 59 errors in XHTML and an error in the CSS. Verizon Wireless: Again, nice job, but 49 errors in XHTML, an error in the CSS. They'll get there... Leslie Riggs I don't know how long ago they made their switch. Looks like companies are starting to see how important it is to have a web site that uses web standards. http://www.cingular.com - View Source http://www.verizonwireless.com - View Source ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http://ab c.net.au/
'Users with Disabilities' is better than 'disabled users' generally, however, when referring to deaf users, it depends on whether the user is culturally deaf or not. Culturally Deaf users are those that use sign language for communication and belong to the deaf community. They're referred to as the big 'D' deaf. In my experience, most Deaf users would not like to be referred to as disabled as they do not consider themselves to be disabled. This is Important to note Other deaf users are usually referred to as hearing impaired or deaf (no capital). Ahem, being that I am Deaf and very actively involved in local and state-level communities in my little part of the U.S., I can tell you that there are precious few people who do not consider themselves Deaf who also would bristle at the term hearing impaired. Hard of hearing is a better accepted term. The term deaf isn't real widely used except when referring to a broad population, such as when talking about the deaf community. Hearing impaired is a term used by people who don't realize or understand what they are talking about, to describe Deaf or hard of hearing people. Regarding the preference for dropdowns, that doesn't surprise me. Deaf and hard of hearing people (especially those fluent in a sign language - ASL, BSL, USL) are exceptionally visually oriented. When a menu drops down rather than flying out, it's easier to read and navigate down. The information related to that menu item is closer to the item than when additional menu choices fly out to the side (with multiple choices listed vertically), which is a bit jarring. It's also less effort than to try to keep the mouse within the hot spot to navigate sideways, then down to the desired link. Leslie Riggs Hope that helps and is not too off topic?? Lisa Terrence Wood wrote: I wonder why people with hearing disabilities requested dropdowns, is this result (statistically) valid, or just observed within your group? btw, I'm pretty sure the correct term to use users with disabilities. kind regards ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http: //ab c.net.au/
All in how each person views it, I suppose. My (not) hearing *is* normal... For me, the humiliation lies in the obvious misperceptions of people I meet every day - it's amazing what people will assume you can't do, simply because you don't have or use a particular physical feature. To bring this back to topic, I have met with hearing prospects and worked to explain different concepts in web design, and been asked things like, Following web standards is all well and good, but how are you going to stream the audio when you can't hear it, if you can't do it this? How do you know your method will WORK? Makes for very interesting entries in my offline personal journal :) Leslie ... I have a disability therefore I'm a disabled user, and I'm also a user with a disability and I'm also hearing impaired and physically impaired. It just amazes me the importance people attach to labels. How can people get offended by a truth? My hearing is *not* normal. It's a fact and I'm not ashamed of it and though sometimes I get humiliated it's not because of labels! ... Call me what you will (but try to keep it polite... haha). ... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http: //ab c.net.au/
It's an uphill battle. Accessibility is a hot topic these days, but online streamed video and audio access by way of captioning or subtitling for the Deaf / hard of hearing is very poorly implemented. Even the big sites crowing about how their websites meet and even exceed accessibility guidelines still don't have captioning available with their video or audio clips. It could just be an honest oversight on the part of the site developers, or it could be a management decision based on resource availability issues, or ??. A dream of mine is to see the development of reliable, high-quality speech to text technology built into QuickTime, Real, Windows Media Player, etc. so that captions are created on the fly that users turns on through user preferences within the application. I have submitted feedback requests to many of the news sites (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) but have not heard or seen any responses. I doubt the FCC could enforce such a thing as licensing. They don't have jurisdiction across the entire Web. I don't even want to think about the implications of licensing requirements. UGH. I already have a headache Leslie But on the subject of streaming -- I find that very few streaming broadcasts use captioning. Most television broadcasts have closed captioning as mandatory and the ability to transmit text with radio broadcasts is being used (although, more as an added feature). I imagine the wild-west unregulated state of the web makes such enforcement difficult at best. I am sure there would be howls of protest if some licensing, such as an FCC license for broadcasting, would be mandatory for the web -- and perhaps there should be some citizens band version of the web (which the spammers will overrun) and a professional version. Interesting thought... Dwacon www.dwacon.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Some people can be thick -- even when well-intentioned. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Review Please - www.SalmonRecipes.Net
Beautiful! It's just that the banner ad is rather jarring in its present location. Anything you can do about that? When I see salmonrecipes.com with the ad right next to it, it's a bit confusing. Others have given you just the input I would have given. Obviously you put a lot of thought into this design. Great job! Leslie Hello everyone, I would really appreciate your comments about our recently redeveloped http://www.salmonrecipes.net/ site. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Learning The DOM
And now, I'd like to turn the question around and ask everyone on this list what they'd like to see from the DSTF. How much JavaScript do you know? Minimal. I can read it enough to understand what a script is doing but I haven't written JavaScript from scratch yet. What kind of things about DOM Scripting need clarifying? Best practices, accessible JavaScript, graceful techniques for those UIs that have JS turned off. Do you want to see examples of cool stuff with a kind of DOM Scripting for dummies style explanation or more sober articles with a more geeky leaning? I like both... Please share your personal experiences: what's your skill level with JavaScript compared to say, CSS or XHTML? What's your opinion of JavaScript? I understand CSS/XHTML far better than I do JavaScript. I'm really new to JS, but more and more lately, I'm seeing that there can be some very useful things that JavaScript can do, after CSS/XHTML has hit the limit. JavaScript has its place, but if there's something that can be accomplished using CSS/XHTML, that should be the preferred option. The answers you give will really, really help determine the direction that the Task Force takes. Thanks, Jeremy ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
The content is what's important - and I'll send a token of sincere appreciation to those who go do the extra work of captioning the presentation. :) Leslie Riggs If all goes to plan (and it has so far), this tuesday's Brisbane WSG meeting will be filmed with the intention of offering it up for WSG members. If anyone wants to volunteer to do the captioning that would be awesome, otherwise some of the locals will probably draw straws for it... (don't be afraid, SMIL is easy --- just disect Patrick's captioned version of a Zeldman speach ;p) I know the film quality will be bad because I'll probably end up holding the camera; but who cares, we've got to start somewhere. Cheers, Andrew. - leftjustified.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Then there's this one Deaf WSG member who's gonna ask for some kind of captioning/subtitling of the video/audio... Leslie Riggs I live in eastern US. Much as I would love to visit Austrailia, it is out of the question for now at least. I think some sort of video of your events would be great! Nancy */akella [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: what about ukraine? there are four of us but only two of us know each other... On 6/9/05, *Kvnmcwebn* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? how about northern ireland? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Issue with CSS, Flash and FireFox
You have a number of validation errors per the W3C HTML validator; perhaps start with clearing those up? One of the errors mentions trying to use src with the embed tag... Leslie Riggs Hello to All, I have a slight issue that is driving me batty. I am unable to get my flash/shockwave file to behave in FireFox. In FF, the flash file lays on top of the footer, but in IE, it stays where it is suppose to be. Here is the url to the work in progress, which works well for IE. http://www.kustom.com/Kustom2005/index.htm Any solutions that help me better understand the slight differences and how to overcome them in the future will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff D. Reid MIS Dept. HHI Music Cincinnati, OH, USA ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Photo gallery standards?
You've got a lot of validation issues. Over 180 errors, including XHTML markup while using an HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD. I think you need to decide if you want to follow that DTD or switch to an XHTML DTD. Leslie Riggs actually i'm having a problem in my project, I have to have category for every person, with his albums so the site become so ugly and so huge, and the current content is only 20% of what I have would you mind to take a look http://joite.org/gallery/ On 5/29/05, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:46:29 +0100, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How to Create a Photographic Gallery Using CSS: http://www.webreference.com/programming/css_gallery/index.html I don't like it. It works only on hover and that's Bad Thing for usability and accessiblity. I can't use keyboard. I can't get link to certain image. I can't copy image or get it's properties. I can't leave page open on certain image (try not getting lost in 100-image gallery). I can't use Opera's slideshow feature. For me even Apache's simple directory listing makes better gallery than that. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Flash Satay Embed Issue
I notice that I forgot to include a link to the page with the problem. My apologies - here it is: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/dhha/home4.html Bob, I didn't put in the code you suggested yet. I did try it locally. IE6 STUBBORNLY refuses to show the Flash. The above link will take you to the page with code for the container movie which calls the flash. Works great in FF and Opera. IE6 never seems to load it. It goes and goes and goes, but never gets there. I got the same result testing your solution locally. I'm determined to find a good, standards compliant way to serve Flash clips in IE as well as other browsers, and I know some of the population who will view the site may have Javascript turned off, so that's the reason for wanting a Javascript-less solution. hi Leslie, Bert Doorn recently suggested to me that I try: object data=whatever.swf width=x height=y type=application/x-shockwave-flash param name=movie value=whatever.swf / param name=quality value=high / pNo Flash?/p /object and so far I haven't found anywhere that it doesn't work! I've tested it in IE5.5, 6, FF1, Opera8 and with Flash file sizes up to 90K. I haven't found any evidence of streaming problems at all. I haven't reported back to Bert about this, as I was going to test on bigger Flash files first, so if you're reading this Bert, Thank you! Incidentally, it validates as xhtml 1.0 strict! This seems like a revelation to me, and I'd be interested if anyone else knows of any problems? Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Flash Satay Embed Issue
Thanks heaps, Patrick. That did the trick. I'd completely overlooked that the param name had to be movie. It validates! It WORKS! Thank you again. Leslie Riggs You have an error in your markup. Try changing param name=top_dhha value=flash/cont_dhha.swf?path=flash/top_dhha.swf / to param name=movie value=flash/cont_dhha.swf?path=flash/top_dhha.swf / ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Flash Satay Embed Issue
Since you helped me, I'll help you. For just a split second, I see a broken image icon in the upper left corner of the area with the Flash (using WinXP Pro SP2 with IE6 on a cable connection), then the Flash loads fine. Same with the credits page. I think the first time someone loads this, that's what happens, but it's only a split second, then the flash loads. Probably the file takes just that wee extra time to load and IE likes to wait till it's all there before it runs the Flash. Leslie Riggs I'm confused as to what is happening here. Will someone please try the opening page of www.kernowimages.co.uk , confirm that it works in IE, and save my sanity? For me it works in WinXP running IE5.5 and 6, as well as FF1, Opera 8. If you have time, you could check the 'credits' page as well. That works too. (well, it does here :-) So what is happening? Duh. Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Forms question
When validating a page containing a form for XHTML 1.0 Transitional, I get the following message regarding a textarea: required attribute cols not specified Why can't we specify a percentage width for the textarea in the CSS instead? It works, but it doesn't validate without the cols attribute being defined, and if I'm going to define cols then there's no purpose for the width in the CSS, is there? Does this have to do with being able to enter text beyond that CSS-defined width? Thanks for your enlightenment... Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best way to train someone in css and web standards
I'm with Ben on this one. I learned loads after installing Firefox and adding the validator and developer toolbar. I went to different sites and ran them through the validator, saw the errors (or not) and learned about how to and how not to code to standards. Leslie Riggs Keep them away from anything that isn't strictly standard-based (x)html and CSS for a while. Let them work and test against real browsers and the validators, and make sure IE/win doesn't get in the way with its broken standard-support and tag-soup recovery. Stick them on Firefox with these two extensions: HTML VALIDATOR (based on Tidy) http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/ Validates as they view their pages, so they should always see the beautiful green checkmark that says the HTML is valid. It has some issues, but hopefully it will train them to cringe when they miss that closing slash on their link tag. WEB DEVELOPER http://chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/ Web Developer is a toolbar with wonderful, wonderful abilities for people learning CSS. Chief among them is the Outline menu and the ability to switch styles off with a keystroke, IMO. The Tools menu also trains them to validate, validate, validate. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Forms question
I'm using XHTML 1.0 Transitional. I don't have a percentage defined in the markup. It's defined in the CSS as width: 65% and I left the cols attribute unspecified. What I want to understand is why is cols required by the W3C standard, if the width can be defined in CSS? Is there a specific purpose to that, that can't be served by the width attribute in CSS? The reason I'm questioning this is when you have a layout with a form inside a container with a percentage width defined in CSS, but you have cols hard coded in the markup, couldn't that create a problem with the way a UA renders a page, particularly when cols is effectively wider than the containing area on a page? For example, say I've got a form with a textarea, cols at 80. I have a container for that form that is set to 60% width (in the CSS). Now, if I have a small screen, the container will take up 75% of the screen width...could cols, set at 80, break that layout or will it still render acceptably? I am just respectfully asking for help in understanding why cols is required by the W3C standard if a width attribute could be set in CSS for textarea. Thanks, Leslie Riggs cols is used to define the number of characters on a line. That is percent is giving you an error. The default for this in html 4.01 is 80. I believe in xhtml it is required to be defined. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Forms question
Isn't the default 80 columns? Leslie Riggs What I want to understand is why is cols required by the W3C standard, if the width can be defined in CSS? The way I find it easiest to explain is to think about what happens if CSS was to be disabled in the browser, or the browser was incapable of processing CSS (take Lynx, for example). If the cols are not defined in the markup then what is the browser supposed to show? Cheers Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Any good color spies?
Colorschemer Studio isn't free, but it's not real expensive either, and it does a very nice job with several options of color scheme selections, such as monochromatic, triad, tetrad, analogous, etc. Very visual, and schemes can be saved for use later. http://www.colorschemer.com Leslie You guys know of any good tools which has a color spy and also shows similar colors (colors that go well with the color you spied)? Free would be best.. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] float (?) problem with Safari
Hello Robin, As is customary, I ran your site through the W3C validator. It shows that there is no doctype declaration, and there are 13 validation errors, most related to the lack of a doctype declaration. Fixing those might not fix your problem but it'll ensure your code is more standards compliant and clean, so it's a good start. Leslie Riggs Hi I've got a 3-column layout, with dropdown menus, here: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~persia/final/test.html The left right cols are floated. This seems to work ok in IE, Moz Firefox on PC and Moz NN7 on Mac. Safari doesn't like it, however and pops the left col out to the right side of the layout. The rest then follows underneath as normal. If I remove the navbars5.css, which is used to style the menus, then the columns behave as they should. My guess is that something floated in navbars5.css needs clearing - have tried this, to no avail. Not sure why it only affects Safari. Any suggestions appreciated. TIA Robin Gallagher ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Really strange results
In some browsers, the test page I have put up renders fine: namely, IE Mac, Safari on Mac, IE6 on PC. However, Firefox, Opera, Mozilla and Netscape don't seem to see the stylesheet. Both HTML and CSS validated fine through the W3C site. I am really having a difficult time understanding why some browsers see the stylesheet, while others don't? The link to the page: http://www.deafvision.net/projects/btw/revised/indexx.html. CSS is at http://www.deafvision.net/projects/btw/revised/css/btwnewx.css. This is the first time I've encountered this situation, so anyone who can point me in the right direction, I would be very much obliged. Thanks. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Really strange results
Thanks, Michael, Where do I find that information, so I can back up the assertion when I talk with the hosting provider? Thank you! Leslie Riggs This is because your webserver is outputting: Content-Type: text/plain and not: Content-Type: text/css For your CSS file. IE doesn't care, but most other stuff does. Nothing wrong with your CSS. It is a web server configuration problem. - Original Message - From: Leslie Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:35:12 +1000 Subject: [WSG] Really strange results In some browsers, the test page I have put up renders fine: namely, IE Mac, Safari on Mac, IE6 on PC. However, Firefox, Opera, Mozilla and Netscape don't seem to see the stylesheet. Both HTML and CSS validated fine through the W3C site. I am really having a difficult time understanding why some browsers see the stylesheet, while others don't? The link to the page: http://www.deafvision.net/projects/btw/revised/indexx.html. CSS is at http://www.deafvision.net/projects/btw/revised/css/btwnewx.css. This is the first time I've encountered this situation, so anyone who can point me in the right direction, I would be very much obliged. Thanks. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Really strange results
Thanks to all - the hosting provider confirmed that the web server was incorrectly configured; it's an older one. The site will go live on a newer, properly configured server. I can now sleep happythanks again, everyone. Leslie Riggs scott parsons wrote: The easy answer is that your server is configured incorrectly. Your stylesheet is being served as text/plain, and not text/css thus some browsers are not treating it as a style sheet.. i just did a quick test, copying leslie's code and css and loaded it on my server - and it was read by mozilla and firefox. I wasn't even going to say anything because I was so mystified by it - but your answer explains it, Scott. Some days I find these mysteries rather fun; other days I dunno. best Donna ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS validator says [xX][mM][lL] is not allowed.
Out of curiosity, I'm wondering why the xml prolog is there in the document when the page is being served as text/html? I'm still pretty new to this, so I'm happy to learn and understand Leslie Riggs Hi, I have valid XHTML http://idealcouple.com/ http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fidealcouple.com%2F And valid CSS http://idealcouple.com/styling/idealism.css http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fidealcouple.com%2Fstyling%2Fidealism.cssusermedium=all But when my client click CSS link in the footer, CSS validator says : Please, validate your XML document first! Line 2 Column 6 The processing instruction target matching [xX][mM][lL] is not allowed. I have both XHTML and CSS valid, but CSS Validator dont think so :( Whats my problem? The same trouble i have in my other site in development (line and column number are different) http://it.net.ua/weblog/ We use PHP to render XML prolog and DOCTYPE, and we use PHP sessions. Any help are welcome, as well as screenshots from Mac people. Thanx, Andrey. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] To display or not to display validation logos?
I think you pretty much answered your own question already. :) Leslie Riggs I am just about to complete a new site for a client, and I have coded it according to XHTML 1.0 strict guidelines. I am also using validated CSS. Do you think it is worth displaying the W3C compliance logos at the bottom? Here is the web site: http://www.fit2gether.co.uk/index.html (let me know what you think!) The web site is to do with personal fitness training. Neither the client nor the majority of site visitors would know what these logos mean so is there much point in displaying them? Thanks, Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] accessibilty and responsibility
I don't know how to word this, but here goes... We have the W3C's WCAG and Section 508...however, WCAG is just a set of guidelines; Section 508 applies to US federal agencies. I'm not asking that we legislate this (heaven forbid!) for the Web at large, but it seems there isn't yet a *widely accepted* standard that people are saying we ought to use? I recently wanted to view a news video on the MSN site (there's always hope!), and I have my setting for captions/subtitling to be shown when available in the Windows Media Player that I have installed. Unfortunately, it seems the producers of the Web videos forget to include the subtitling /captioning, or the Windows Media Player isn't including the captions when the movie is downloaded, or whatever the case may be. Being deaf, I rely on whatever I can read in text along with the facial expressions and body language that I can see in order to get the information that is being presented. I have repeatedly submitted feedback saying things like videos look great, but can't you caption them? Of course I'm sure these companies get scads of feedback and are too busy to be bothered to reply with even a got your note, thanks, we'll look into it. We have a long, long way to go to achieve true accessibility in the world. Even I have much to learn and more to do... So, what do we do here? How accessible should we be, to achieve the ideal? Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web standards training course/events in Sydney?
I'm wishing we could have something like that in my neck of the woods... Leslie in NE Wisconsin, midwestern USA Web Essentials will definitely be on again. Russ, Peter Maxine and I are working hard to put together an even better event this year. Best. News. Ever (well, not quite, but close ;) Excuse me while I dance around the office like a complete idiot.. Can't wait to see the line-up, Andrew. http://leftjustified.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Another plea for help: FF1.0 render problem
Hello, I posted a few days ago, about this puzzler. Didn't get a response. I REALLY need some help with this from you gurus. I primarily code for Firefox, then check other browsers, then IE6. The majority of users who will view the pages on this site are IE users, however, the fact that I see this rendering problem on the Gecko browsers is really bothering me. The pages validate XHTML 1.1; CSS validation comes back with no errors. I use the same style sheet for both pages. Both pages reference the same DIVs for navigation and the content area. For some reason that I can't fathom, the events page shows a gap between the nav bar (nav) and the content area (containall). The home page does not show this gap. I've checked and rechecked, changed this and that, to no avail. This only appears to be a problem with Firefox and other Gecko browsers (Opera too). IE6 renders fine. Can anyone please help me figure this out? URL for problem page: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/events.html URL for CSS: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/css/mainstyles.css The links for the dates on the calendars are not working yet; I haven't set them up -- I'm too hung up on this issue right now. If anyone can help, I'd be s thankful. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another plea for help: FF1.0 render problem
Thank you!! That is a really bizarre quirk, even more so that it works without rendering issues popping up in the other browsers. I shall sleep much better tonight, and have a good report for the client in the morning. Is this a Gecko bug, I wonder? Thanks again. Leslie Riggs Hi Leslie Your problem occurs when you have the border-top: 0; after the border statement. If you take this out, it then works the same as in other browsers, strange I know. Hope this helps. Cheers Jeff Lowder Accessibility 1st Ph: 02 9570 9875 Mobile: 0419 350 760 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.accessibility1st.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Gap between content and nav on events page in Firefox, looks fine in IE6
What gives? I have this small two-page site up for testing right now: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/index.html The index page is fine but the events page shows a gap between the nav and the content area. This is in windows, FF1.0. IE6 shows both pages just fine. The CSS is here: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/css/mainstyles.css Validated XHTML 1.1, CSS validated too. I probably have been deep into this so long I can't see the problem.. Any suggestions will be deeply appreciated. Leslie Riggs ** Haven't seen a reply so I'll contribute this: you are using two different images for the logo. On the home page it's logo.gif and on events it is logo_wiscard.jpg. One is transparent, the other is not. Could that be the difference? drew I was testing two different looks for the logo with the client; I just uploaded the transparent one that the client chose. I don't see any change in Firefox 1.0; the gap is still there. Can anyone help, please? Many thanks in advance. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Gap between content and nav on events page in Firefox, looks fine in IE6
What gives? I have this small two-page site up for testing right now: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/index.html The index page is fine but the events page shows a gap between the nav and the content area. This is in windows, FF1.0. IE6 shows both pages just fine. The CSS is here: http://www.theonlineworks.com/test/wiscrad/css/mainstyles.css Validated XHTML 1.1, CSS validated too. I probably have been deep into this so long I can't see the problem.. Any suggestions will be deeply appreciated. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE returns a blank page
Sometimes simply clearing my browser cache does the trick for me - although I'm sure you've already tried this. Leslie Riggs I can't figure out what can be causing the problem, because it doesn't work with any of my friends computers either... this is so weird... Juha-Markku Liikala Department of Information Processing Science University of Oulu, Finland ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Color Scheme Tools (Was: My Site)
That site works fine in IE6, but in my FF 1.0 on WinXP SP2, instructions don't appear, etc. Doesn't work in FF, in other words. It's awesome, but you have to use it with IE. Leslie In case anyone missed it, http://www.wire-man.com/paletteman/ is nice too. Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Site
I went back and re-checked for CSS and HTML validation: You still have some problems to fix. The CSS validator shows an error page. The HTML validator clearly states your code is not valid XHTML 1.0 Strict, with 136 errors. You'll have to fix those first. It looks to me like you'll have to go back to the drawing board. One thing I suggest is reviewing not only HTML/XHTML/CSS validation and document types, but also learning a bit more about using CSS for positioning rather than putting all your content into tables and laying them out that way. Start by looking at http://www.positioniseverything.net and go from there. Once you start using those techniques, you'll have a much cleaner site, codewise, that is vastly easier to maintain. As far as the colors, there's definitely room for improvement - I see a couple of people have posted some links to color scheme selectors you can use, so hopefully you find those helpful. Leslie Riggs I do have one set of head, body and html tags. I have validated my CSS and HTML. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for publication titles
Maybe I'm not fully understanding your question, but what about having a class (call it pub or whatever) and then defining font-style: italic in the CSS? Leslie Riggs SEMANTIC MARKUP FOR PUBLICATION TITLES In print the name of a publication is typically type-set in an oblique or italic font. A similar *visual* effect can be achieved either through the use of: - an italic font-tag iPublication/i (probably deprecated) - an emphasis tag emPublication/em - styling a span span class=pubPublication/span (with companion CSS) As far as I'm aware, none of these methods have anything to recommend them from a semantic perspective. Is there an alternative convention or standards-endorsed markup to communicate that the enclosed text refers to a publication? Elegance preferred (i.e. rather than adding title tags to any of the above options). Cheers, ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Now THIS is what makes designing with CSS fun!! I just love this. Leslie Riggs http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Weird CSS validation issue
Well, I noticed a wee thing, maybe it doesn't matter and maybe it does: html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en *lang=em* Maybe by tweaking that to read lang=en will fix something? hope it helps, Leslie Riggs Hey all, I'm still fairly new to CSS and wanted to validate my CSS before asking some advice from this group, but I keep getting weird errors ONLY when I validate the online CSS file. I'm using the W3C CSS Validation Service: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ I can validate my local copy of the CSS file and receive no errors, however when I try and validate my online version, it has errors everywhere. Actually, I didn't think the items that it's reporting were errors. For example, I'm using % for font-size - but it doesn't like this. It also fails on my shorthand hex colours (ie. #000 instead of #00). The XHTML file validates fine, both locally and online. Here's the relevant addresses: http://www.lakemac.com.au/new/default.htm http://www.lakemac.com.au/new/css/screen_home.css What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance for your help. Best Regards, Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Tel: (02) 4921 0713 Fax: (02) 4958 7257 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: _http://www.lakemac.com.au_ http://www.lakemac.com.au/ || ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] positioning problems on netscape
Hello Matheus, Before even starting to address the problem, you need to do a couple of things. I notice your styles are completely embedded in your HTML. Additionally, you are not declaring a doctype in your HTML file, which could be part of the problem. I would recommend that you research a bit about doctypes and put the appropriate doctype declaration on your file, try creating an external CSS file with your styles in it and reference it from the HTML file, then try validating both to see if there are any issues that come up. A good place to start learning about doctypes is http://www.w3.org where you can then type into the search field doctype and you'll find some good links within the W3C site to help you. That site also has HTML and CSS validators to help you spot any problems within your code. If the issue persists, then we can begin to suggest some solutions to your problem. Another suggestion is to develop for Netscape/Mozilla/Opera first, then tweak for IE. The reason for this is because IE's flawed box model (among other things) needs to be compensated for, while the other browsers are much more Web standards compliant. Leslie Riggs i was building a web page and started to use some divs tag and style configuration. I was testing it on IE and everything was fine, but after i finished i opened it on netscape. That´s where the styles weren´t working and all positioning stuff were messed up. The style i fixed just removing some quotes (i´m really new on this) but i couldn´t find out why the hell it was all messed up. what am i doing wrong? div style=position:absolute; left:x; top:y; yara yara yara /div if anybody would like to take a look not my design but. www.quintfotos.com.br []´s Matheus Neves _ Quer mais velocidade? Só com o acesso Aditivado iG, a velocidade que você quer na hora que você precisa. Clique aqui: http://www.acessoaditivado.ig.com.br ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Using FF1.0 on a WinME machine, it doesn't render - I see the code instead. Same result with FF1.0 on XP SP2. Leslie Riggs A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. Rises out from lurk mode I don't have any problem seeing it with FF1.0 . /back to lurk mode William Haggerty VWH Web Services http://vwh.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
That was absolutely terrific. I loved it. THANK YOU. I'm still chuckling over Jeffrey's This is CSS, this is XHTML, and this is wait a minute... And at last, I understand what he was SAYING!! I didn't have any problems with the QT SMIL at all, using WinME and Mozilla Firefox 1.0 - I did update my QuickTime before playing the movie, though, to make sure I had the latest version. How hard was it to caption, Patrick? Is it real time-consuming? Would it be something doable for each of the presentations that are filmed? (a delighted and thankful) Leslie Riggs Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Leslie Riggs wrote: Anyone who provides transcripts or subtitling does an enormous, incalculable service for Deaf and hard of hearing professionals like me. We get to smile, laugh, and ponder right along with everyone else, instead of a few seconds later. Ok, call me enormous and incalculable...used the chance to play around with SMIL a bit. http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/66/ Captioned as Quicktime SMIL 1.0. Takes ages to buffer, as it references Zeldman's original, non-optimised 9MB movie :( Also available is a simple HTML transcript. I'd be interested to hear about any compatibility issues of the embedded QT SMIL (particularly from Mac users). Cheers, Patrick H. Lauke ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
Any way there's a transcript available? I'm deaf and so very interested in what Zeldman had to say. I'd love it if I could read the transcript while watching the video... What would send me to absolute nirvana would be to have the video contain captioning (subtitling) right IN the video - ohhh, just the very thought of it thrills me... thud Ugh, that was me coming back to terra firma. Leslie Riggs Not sure if it's been mentioned on the list already, but Zeldman's video keynote for WE04 is available online. http://www.happycog.com/mov/ (although crikey, that 9MB file is not optimised for streaming - or whatever pseudo-streaming over http quicktime implements - meaning that you may be better off downloading it to your machine first) Patrick H. Lauke ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
Patrick, I was definitely serious. I miss out on so many excellent online workshops, streaming audio, and presentations because I can't hear/understand the people who speak during those events. Lipreading over the Internet has its limitations ;) Anyone who provides transcripts or subtitling does an enormous, incalculable service for Deaf and hard of hearing professionals like me. We get to smile, laugh, and ponder right along with everyone else, instead of a few seconds later. Leslie Riggs Leslie, I'm trying to figure out if you were being serious, or just sarcastic... but interestingly enough, I was actually going to do a quick transcript of it this weekend and nudge Jeffrey to make that available as well. I could also have a stab at SMIL...could be an interesting little exercise, as I've done a bit of it in the past. Watch this space :) Patrick -Original Message- From: Leslie Riggs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 November 2004 15:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online Any way there's a transcript available? I'm deaf and so very interested in what Zeldman had to say. I'd love it if I could read the transcript while watching the video... What would send me to absolute nirvana would be to have the video contain captioning (subtitling) right IN the video - ohhh, just the very thought of it thrills me... thud Ugh, that was me coming back to terra firma. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
I just did a search for subtitles in Internet media and found this... http://www.cpcweb.com/Webcasting/webcast_samples.htm I know it costs MONEY to get this - but there's another one called VideoLAN, which is free, open source software but I don't know a whole lot about it: http://www.videolan.org/ - still researching this. I want not only accessibility but also web standards compliance. But, is that asking too much? So, I guess the capabilities are out there. And I'm proud to see a number of people right here in this group who have the skills and knowledge to create things like this with SAMI or SMIL. Two organizations among my clients that are both comprised of and oriented toward the Deaf and hard of hearing community have asked me to look into creating streaming video of their representatives using American Sign Language to include on their websites - and we're looking at voice-overs for site visitors who may not be familiar with ASL, and/or, including text translations (captioning or perhaps just a paragraph next to/beneath the video) because accessibility works both ways. Cost figures into the decision making process quite a bit. Life gets a lot more complicated when we consider all the possible ways to be accessible. I know I may be asking a lot, but I feel like I miss out, when I WANT so much to learn everything everybody else here gets to learn. Talking Newspapers is a great idea - and an excellent solution for people with visual impairments. Captioned/subtitled media on the Web is hugely popular with Deaf and hard of hearing people, because it's real-time information in a visual form. Leslie Riggs Now you've got me thinking. Is there anything similar to the Talking Newspapers service for internet content? Should there be? A group of fast typing volunteers/proofreaders could provide transcripts to popular non subtitled items. We'd barely be scratching the surface of what needs to be done but is it worth thinking about Leslie? Janet ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another site review
Looks sharp - but doesn't validate. No doctype?? Oh, wait...it's further down the page, should be right up top before anything else. Otherwise the validator defaults to HTML 4.01 Transitional, and with that you have some invalid markup to fix. Leslie Riggs Bennie Shepherd wrote: I would like to get comments on my site. http://bennieshepherd.com Thanks guys... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another site review
I went to the page by clicking your link, using FF, clicked on the Validator tab in the Web Developer toolbar. Is there a glitch with that tab? Leslie Riggs Bennie Shepherd wrote: The doc type is at the top of the page and the site validates xhtml strict. Are you sure you validated the right site? :o) On 11/4/2004 1:51:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks sharp - but doesn't validate. No doctype?? Oh, wait...it's further down the page, should be right up top before anything else. Otherwise the validator defaults to HTML 4.01 Transitional, and with that you have some invalid markup to fix. Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS drop-down menus
Boy, that was a GOOD question! I was all set to start a new project - this saves me some big headaches with my client! Leslie Riggs Jeremy Keith wrote: Shane Helm asked: I am about to start a project that I am going to use CSS drop-down menus at the very top of the web page. Directly below the menu bar will be a banner bar that will be done in Flash. So before I begin, will the CSS drop-down menus drop down over the Flash banner correctly? No. Embedded content (Flash, Quicktime, etc.) always appears above other content, regardless of z-index. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Circle menu
Greetings Any idea how to create a circle menu that fit the whole screen with html/css only ?? Do you have an example? Perhaps a site that demonstrates what you're trying to do? Leslie Riggs ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE problem with CSS tabs
I hope it's okay if I jump in here.
Typically, to code links in CSS you'd use colons after the a, and in
LVHA (link, visited, hover, active) order. For example,
#tabmenu a:link {
whatever
}
#tabmenu a:visited {
whatever
}
#tabmenu a:hover {
whatever
}
#tabmenu a:active {
whatever
}
The a:active will be what determines how the link looks when a user is
on that page.
It looks like you were trying to define classes for the links? The
colon is used with pseudoclasses as in the info I gave you above.
HTH,
Leslie Riggs
john wrote:
Isabel,
Forgive me, but could you please clarify your suggestion? I tried
moving the #tabmenu a.active code up one, but it didn't do anything.
I'm really a newbie with CSS, so please bear with me.
~john
_
Dr. Zeus Web Development
http://www.DrZeus.net
content without clutter
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] A Church Website
So, where's the link? :) Leslie Riggs Olajide Olaolorun wrote: Hi guys, well I just wanted your feedback to a church website that I was making. Though it still has some bugs, probably not much on IE5 please help me check it out Also it is supposed to be avlid CSS and XHTML but I haven't checked it yet... Thanks ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Favorite XHTML/CSS/JavaScript/PHP Editor - NO WYSIWYG
I'm currently test driving a free editor, PSPad Editor, which has Top Style 3.10 (trial edition) built-in - you can also get Top Style Lite which is a free version, instead. I'm fast falling in love with Top Style. So far, I'm finding it a pleasure to work with PSPad/Top Style. The best thing about it: it doesn't take up a huge amount of space on your computer, it's fast, and it's feature-packed. Yes, you can write Javascript and PHP files in PSPad Editor, as well as C++, COBOL, Python, etc. It doesn't slow down my machine or crash. It's not WYSIWYG, but you can click to see what your code produces in IE and Mozilla. No more fighting with the program just to get what I want out of it - at last, a tool that lets me concentrate on what I'm trying to accomplish. Just a delight to use. Leslie Riggs jEdit: http://www.jedit.org/ ...and be sure to check out the recommended plugins in the jEdit Wiki: http://community.jedit.org/cgi-bin/TWiki/view/Main/PluginsOverview Nick Greetings Every One! After 1st Page 2000, I'm using AceHTML 5 Pro to build websites (info: http://www.visicommedia.com/). It is great for HTML and CSS developer, but not for a programmer who uses JavaScript and PHP. ... I'm getting tired of it :-( What is your favorite XHTML Editor? (Please note that I'm not looking for WYSIWYG Editors) -- Thanks in advance, Behzad P.S. If you have no time, just mention the program's name :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Moz vs. FF
Am I glad to hear that. I test-drove XStandard, but my browser of choice is FF 0.9. I didn't like being forced to use IE, so that lasted about 10 minutes and I uninstalled XStandard. Otherwise it's a great tool. It's nice to know there will be an Active X-free version out soon. Leslie Riggs Amit Karmakar wrote: I agree Patrick, considering there is no proper Active X support on FF1.0PR which means XStandards wouldn't run unless it on the older version. Although they(XStandards) are working on a new verion due in a couple of weeks time which wouldn't need any active X at all. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites
O, do I second that emotion!!! So many of us just can't get there, and this is invaluable information for us to learn. Leslie Riggs Nancy Johnson wrote: Can his speech be put on your website in some form? Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:49 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites And of course, Bruce Maguire (the guy who sued SOCOG) will be speaking about accessibility and legal implications for Australian Developers at the upcoming September WE04 conference. :) Russ Have you forgotten Sydney Olympics web site, it was 4 years ago the Human Rights Commission awarded A$20,000 compensation in the Maguire vs. SOCOG case. You can find it all here: http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site critique
Got the URL of your site? If the validator is telling you there's an issue with the code generated by Menu Machine, then I'd guess that Menu Machine does not generate standards compliant code? Leslie Tricia Fitzgerald wrote: Hello ~ I am new to css layout design and just recently completed a site. I used Menu Machine in the interest of saving time. I have an issue with the Products header image moving slightly to the right when it's clicked on. Is it Menu Machine causing this? I have checked everything a dozen times and cannot figure it out. Also, when validated I got 105 errors. The bulk of them had to do with MM. Any suggestions appreciated. Tricia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ultimate noob question.... is table-less layout meaning literally?
Table-less just means tables aren't used for layout. When used to contain tabular data, that's not layout, that's containing data that SHOULD be in a table. JMHO. Leslie Riggs What about http://www.sitepoint.com ? That's as complicated a structure as any I've seen, and almost completely table-less. That's a particularly good example, because it uses no tables to lay out the page, but right at the bottom where they've got a list of data, best displayed using rows and columns, then they *have* used a table. It's almost completely table-less because some of the data is table data. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Ikon, where are you?
I simply set up a filter for his messages - I'll take the filter back off after 14 August. Leslie Ted Drake wrote: Is there anything we can do to keep the ikon messages contained for the next 2 weeks? He may be on a holiday, but he'll wish he wasn't when he gets back after two weeks of these responses. If nothing else, I think we should spread some gossip like he uses the blink tag or something like that. Ted -Original Message- From: ikon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: [WSG] Fixed vs flexible layouts I am on holiday between the 30th July and the 14th August. I will reply to your e-mail as soon as possible on my return the following day. Thank you for your understanding. Jay Hills - Ikonik.net (This is an automated response. Please do not reply to this e-mail as it will simply send another back - Thanks) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use?
<>Visicom Media's AceHTML Pro. Version 5.09.1 is the latest live version; version 6.01.1 is a pre-release version with some added features but isn't the final version yet. I have both, I'm happy with both, looking forward to the final version 6 release. Right now you can buy version 5 and you'll get a free upgrade to version 6. http://www.visicommedia.com Leslie Riggs | What CSS/XHTML/HTML editors do you guys use for hand coding and testing?
Re: [WSG] Reminder about Sydney meeting - Thursday 10 June
I can hardly wait to see the notes! I'm very interested in the topic. Leslie in the USA Presentation notes will be online for out-of-Sydney members soon after the event. Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] SkillSwap
Well, darn. Is there something like that in the US anywhere? I like the concept. Leslie Sorry folks. Somehow I managed to send this to the wrong mailing list :-( * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Css problems..
First off, try validating your site - when I ran the W3C HTML validator it came back NOT valid XHTML 1.1 and there were three errors. Second, although you've got a style sheet, your layout is still controlled by tables? I would look at those first before trying to fix the white line issue. Using CSS for layout can give you a very elegant and clean design without all that markup you're using. Just my humble opinion, for what little it's worth (I'm somewhat a newbie myself - always looking to learn). Leslie Hi, i've a problem with Mozilla that i can't resolve. In this site (www.comune.castelnuovo-berardenga.si.it) Mozilla display a white line under the top banner and i can't understand why. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Forms, labels headers
quote Stop! Before you do anything, the most important thing you can do for your learning process is accept that a) it¹s going to take time, and b) you will be frustrated along the way. /quote Been there and I do agree in principle - I like compact code that makes sense. But if it takes me 5 hours of experimenting to get a CSS Only layout working in multiple browsers, I can't help but think why bother. Jumping in here. I'm no CSS expert by any means but I've been learning and the more I do, the more I retain, so I get better as time goes on. It does take time, as Russ said, and I get frustrated lots of times. I occasionally hit a wall with something, but I'm not going back to tables, not when I've seen the enormous benefits that can be realized by using CSS for layout. Tables have their place - and it's NOT layout. I've also done the But I have no TME!' wail, too. Believe me, you'll waste a lot less time later, if you stick with learning and doing CSS for layout now. There IS a way to do what you want. Anyway... Still puzzled why the selects in www.betterwebdesign.com.au/request-quote.asp don't work in Netscape 7. Were you talking about Netscape 7.0 or 7.1? I went to look at your site in 7.1/Win, seems it's working fine on my machine. Leslie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] My first CSS project
Hi Teresa, Good going! Unfortunately, we can't evaluate your site if you don't give a URL ;) Leslie Riggs I have recently redesigned my business web site using CSS. I was looking for some feedback. The biggest obstacle I ran into was on the about us Page. I am wondering if I over used the padding command. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Ot kinda ...CSS tags and Safari Bookmarks?
I've used http://www.zvon.org and checked their reference pages for CSS and CSS2. Very helpful, with examples to demonstrate. Leslie http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp This one comes in handy personally. Or try Google for any specific CSS tgs or attributes. - Darian Anyone know where I can find a *definition style* listing of CSS tags/attributes etc and what they do? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Next Sydney meeting - a fantastic guest presenter
For non-Sydney members, he has promised to write up a list of his top 50 accessibility issues. We will post this to the group. Very exciting! Russ I'm very, VERY interested in reading what David has to say about accessibility with regard to the needs of blind users, so I'll be looking forward to the list. I'm always looking for something to improve upon in my work. As a deaf user, I have had issues dealing with streaming audio/video that does not include captioning to let me know what those people are saying. I'd really love to be able to see the news films and other video on the Internet, and know exactly what those people are saying. If captions are technically impossible at this point (granted, in those small Quicktime screens, they'd be mighty small), then at LEAST, a transcript should be provided via a link, or something. I take this into consideration when I work on sites that contain streaming audio/video. If only I could get to Sydney...but it is not to be. Thanks for the information, Russ. Leslie Riggs * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Title: Message http://www.cinema4duser.comComments and crits most welcome.Peter Impressive. Very clean, easy to navigate. Links work, downloads work, images are crisp, text is clear and pleasurably readable. Only thing I wondered about was the extra click I had to do, to get to the Omega Stone article. When I clicked on the link for the article about John Shakespeare, it took only one click to get to it; whereas it took two clicks to get to the Omega Stone one. That might mislead users a bit. Clicking on the link for the featured download took me to a page that contained all available downloads; maybe it would be nice to go directly to the download for that image, then after the download completes, offer a link to other available downloads? Just a suggestion. The key thing is that everything works very well -this might make the user experience smoother. KUDOS! Nice, nice job. Leslie Riggs
