RE: Off with your JS (was Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question))
G'day Do the 'Bob-The-Office-Worker', and the 'Mary-The-Surfing-Homemaker' (or vise-versa ;) ) types really know about this stuff? Maybe not, but Bob-The-Office-Worker's Directors may have instructed the IT department to cripple the browsers on all their employees' workstations. They may also have set all the PC's to a common resolution of 800x600 at 256 colours. I have been out of the regular workforce for nearly 4 years, but in my last regular job we had just that scenario. About 200 employees around the country (with the exception of the IT department) had no control over it. Flash was also taboo, because animations worked very slowly (or froze the terminals) with the setup they had. Bottom line: use JavaScript, flash etc for embellishment if you want, but make sure the site is accessible without it. While I'm at it - hide CSS from browsers that belong in the museum (as an exhibit, rather than a tool). Nothing wrong with plain text if the document is well structured (OK, graphics designers might disagree) Regards -- Bert Doorn, Web Developer Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Off with your JS (was Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question))
At 07:02 AM 12/10/04, Tom Livingston wrote: But I can't help wondering if these things, and others mentioned, are done by people who *know* about these things. In my mind, that is a small minority. Most likely only developers. Do the 'Bob-The-Office-Worker', and the 'Mary-The-Surfing-Homemaker' (or vise-versa ;) ) types really know about this stuff? Tom, Bottom line: it doesn't really matter what populations you think are turning off javascript the most. Even if it's only developers you still need to engineer your pages to be both accessible and functional whether scripting is turned on or off. Just as you need to make your pages graceful enough that they can continue to be useful in the absence of CSS, image display, mouse peripherals, and human visual perception. We don't know what sorts of users and user agents will be coming to our pages, and there's a great appeal -- if not a mandate -- to make them useable by everyone. Fortunately it's feasible, thanks to the communities of bright, problem-solving, self-critical thinkers we've got in WSG, CSS-D, and other groups. Cheers, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Off with your JS (was Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question))
Well, I'm gonna bail out on this thread before it gets ugly. On a closing note, one might hope that Bob and Mary-The-Office-Worker start complaining (or complain harder) to their Directors that they can't do their work properly and/or efficiently with NN4 (or worse) and that this promps the move to putting NN4 et al on that museum exhibit shelf. We have had cases ourselves where the work we were doing for a client, that *they* asked us to do, could not be managed/transfered between us and them because of their own IT 'rules'. I just had to chuckle at that when I heard about it... Thanks for the responses all... Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com Bert Doorn wrote: snip Bob-The-Office-Worker's Directors may have instructed the IT department to cripple the browsers on all their employees' workstations. snip ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Best approach
Hi, I'm doing a template for a organization and the want a entry page from where people can select which page they want. My problem is they want something like this http://www.esrum.dk/ny_web/esrum_forside.htm and they insist on having rollover effect for the images (image swap). Next problem is since it mostly schools using their website many have turned javascript off by default (according to their logs it's about 35%) so the sample above wont work for them (a sample they did themselves BTW) I made a quick sample without the img swap thingy http://www.mouseriders.dk/esrum/index.htm but they insist on the img swap. So now I'm wondering which approach would be best using css and no javascript getting the layout as in my sample but with img swap? Thanks for any help Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best approach
Thanks all... should keep me busy tonight :) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they want... almost) So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS only? Thanks in advance Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without
having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own
font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they
want... almost)
So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS
only?
At that point you use a unique set of images and css for each swap,
probably assigned by id with the behavior outlined in a class. I
haven't tested this, but I suspect you're looking for something like
this:
style type=text/css
#foo { background: url(/img/foo.gif) no-repeat 0 0; }
#bar { background: url(/img/bar.gif) no-repeat 0 0; }
a.rollover:link{ background-position: 0px 0px; }
a.rollover:visited { background-position: 0px 10px; }
a.rollover:hover { background-position: 0px 20px; }
a.rollover:active { background-position: 0px 30px; }
/style
a href=foo.html id=foo class=rolloverimg src=/img/clear.gif
height=10 width=20 alt=Foo //a
a href=bar.html id=bar class=rolloverimg src=/img/clear.gif
height=10 width=20 alt=Bar //a
I'm not sure if this is entirely kosher. Maybe there's something more
appropriate than a clear gif to make the link fill up some room? Would
it be clickable if you simply gave foo and bar a height and width with
display:block?
--
Ben Curtis
WebSciences International
http://www.websciences.org/
v: (310) 478-6648
f: (310) 235-2067
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Best approach (new question)
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they want... almost) So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS only? Thanks in advance Kim Kim- I've mocked up an example for you. http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/hovertest.htm http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/hovertest.css this uses the hover property on the DIV itself. There is a clear gif with an A wrapped around it to provide for the link itself. The images are set as background-image properties of the DIV itself. One catch. This won't work in IE because it doesn't support the hover property on the DIVs. However, if you you use the csshover.htc file, you can make IE support it. I don't recall where the csshover.htc is located on the web, but if you google it, I'm sure you'll find it. Regards, Ron ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Best approach (new question)
Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they want... almost) So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS only? Thanks in advance Kim Kim- I updated my example for you to include the csshover.htc. It now works in IE as well as Opera and Gecko browsers. You can grab the htc file from my server, at this link: http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/csshover.htc You probably will want to implement the suggestion from one of the other listmembers about using one image and just changing its position rather than swapping images as I've done. If I get the time, I'll update my example to include that as well. Regards, Ron ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Best approach (new question)
Hi all, I have a slightly related question, and hopefully asking it will not dissolve into something a list mom will have to stomp on... so, here goes... Just out of curiosity, why are some people turning javascript off? I have heard on lists that some see it as a security risk, but I have never heard of anyone's computer being compromised by js. Is it just an aversion to pop ups and window shake/resizing? Again, I'm not debating the use of js, just wondering why people would turn it off. TIA Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com Pringle, Ron wrote: Now I've looked at the samples and it seem it can't be done without having some kind of text as the link and they want to use their own font on the imgs. (I know... but they pay me and I do what they want... almost) So can the same effect as a javascript img swap possible using CSS only? Thanks in advance Kim Kim- I updated my example for you to include the csshover.htc. It now works in IE as well as Opera and Gecko browsers. You can grab the htc file from my server, at this link: http://www.aurora-il.org/testsite/problemsolving/csshover.htc You probably will want to implement the suggestion from one of the other listmembers about using one image and just changing its position rather than swapping images as I've done. If I get the time, I'll update my example to include that as well. Regards, Ron ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
