Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-15 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, No, that's not old fashioned, it's quite the opposite - it's designing for the future. It's designing for the wide range of user needs (rather than ones own graphic design sensibilities), which is still a new concept for many Web designers. Stuart On Sun, April 15, 2007 3:50 am, Katrina wr

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-14 Thread Katrina
Bojana Lalic wrote: Hi all Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the alt attribute or label. I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get aro

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-14 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Mmm, not really the kind of label tags we were discussing. Stuart On Sat, April 14, 2007 9:08 am, Matthew Pennell wrote: > PS: Link for you: http://alistapart.com/articles/alphabet > > ;) > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://websta

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-14 Thread Nick Fitzsimons
On 14 Apr 2007, at 07:25:29, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Doesn't look like valid code to me. Stuart http://www.w3.org/ TR/html4/strict.dtd"> blah Search NOW it's valid ;-) On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:07 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-14 Thread Matthew Pennell
On 4/14/07, Stuart Foulstone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Doesn't look like valid code to me. Of course it's valid - the LABEL element can contain other inline elements, which BUTTON is. Matthew. PS: Link for you: http://alistapart.com/articles/alphabet ;) *

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-13 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, Doesn't look like valid code to me. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:07 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: > On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick Lauke wrote: > >> I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, >> having a text input box with no visible label and a button that >> sa

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-13 Thread Patrick Lauke
> Nick Fitzsimons > Surely > > > > Search > > > would therefore keep everybody happy? Depends on AT support (whether or not a screenreader would actually be able to make sense of this construct and expose "Search" as explicit label for the search box when focussed on). Personally,

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Patrick Lauke
> Nick Fitzsimons > Surely > > > > Search > > > would therefore keep everybody happy? Depends on AT support (whether or not a screenreader would actually be able to make sense of this construct and expose "Search" as explicit label for the search box when focussed on). Personally,

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Nick Fitzsimons
On 12 Apr 2007, at 13:34:06, Patrick Lauke wrote: I'm not making assumptions. I'm saying that, for sighted users, having a text input box with no visible label and a button that says "Search" immediately next to it is labelling enough. Surely Search would therefore keep everybo

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Patrick Lauke
> Stuart Foulstone > Sorry, I thought we were discussing labels for form input > boxes (not just > one-box input search forms). I was specifically talking about the type of form Bojana mentions in the thread starter. > However, generally speaking, making assumptions about > accessibility base

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Sorry, I thought we were discussing labels for form input boxes (not just one-box input search forms). However, generally speaking, making assumptions about accessibility based on the visual positioning of elements "in a logical common place used by most other sites" is not a good idea. Better to

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Jixor - Stephen I
You could label the field as "search" and the button as "go" perhaps. I'm guessing you don't want to label the search field because the submit would also be labeled search? Patrick Lauke wrote: Stuart Foulstone If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for screenre

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Patrick Lauke
> Stuart Foulstone > If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for > screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the > method below or > a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too. Not necessarily just for screenreader accessibility. If the input itsel

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, If you're only concerned about providing form accessibility for screenreaders, and no other disability, you could use the method below or a transparent.gif with appropriate alt-text would work too. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 2:50 am, Micky Hulse wrote: > Bojana Lalic wrote: >> I don’t wa

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, Yes, quite often accessibility features for people with disabilities increase accessibility for everyone and, hence, "usability". The clickability of label/field makes forms more accessible for people with certain motor problems that have difficulty pointing with a mouse by increasing the "ta

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Jixor - Stephen I
I would refer to that as usability. Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Since the ability to click on the label (or field) to put focus on the field is an accessibility feature of forms, I don't really understand your point. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 9:40 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: The la

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, Since the ability to click on the label (or field) to put focus on the field is an accessibility feature of forms, I don't really understand your point. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 9:40 am, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: > The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Jixor - Stephen I
The labels are also clickable to focus on their respective fields so I wouldn't say they are purely accessibility oriented in nature. Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, A

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-12 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi, The labels are there for accessibility reasons, if you don't want to design for accessibility, don't pretend to. Stuart On Thu, April 12, 2007 1:55 am, Bojana Lalic wrote: > Hi all > > > > Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the > alt attribute or label. > > >

Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)

2007-04-11 Thread Micky Hulse
Bojana Lalic wrote: I don’t want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? Me personally, I setup my form normally using label/input, then apply abso