Katrina wrote:
> No. It is the assumption on your part of what that data means. It is
> better to be explicit, rather than implicit, and to not leave the
> meaning of the data with the viewer who makes their own meanings from
> their own experiences and understandings.
>> In short, does the follow
From: "Katrina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Yes, because tabular format is tabular data due to the use of the
tab character (thus 'tab'ular data).
I agree with you except for your etymology of "tabular". Actually, as
an old database jockey, I do believe "tabular" refers to the
relationship between jo
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Katrina wrote:
Forget about how it should be marked up or presented, the "issue" is
about *defining* what tabular data is.
What's your definition of tabular data?
Data that is separated by a tab character (such as tsv files etc).
I don't think this relates *directly*
At 3/9/2007 06:05 AM, Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007, at 19:09:52, Paul Novitski wrote:
The HTML spec makes it explicitly clear that the relationship
between term and description can be interpreted more broadly than
merely terms and their definitions:
"Another application of DL, for exam
On 8 Mar 2007, at 19:09:52, Paul Novitski wrote:
The HTML spec makes it explicitly clear that the relationship
between term and description can be interpreted more broadly than
merely terms and their definitions:
"Another application of DL, for example, is for marking up
dialogues, with e
iginal Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, 08 March, 2007 20:25 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Talking about tabular data...
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2007, at 16:37:15, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>&
The example we have been seeing in this thread is one that doesn't fall
neatly into either the table or definition list categories. It could work
with both.
The broader debate about just what is a table vrs a definition list is far
more interesting.
Paul, I like the way you put it. But I don't s
Kenny Graham wrote:
>> More seriously, in my opinion yes, it would stop being tabular data
>> because then the top row for the headers becomes useless. Look at it
>> this way: if that (two column) table was linearized, its content
>> would still make sense.
>
> I disagree. What if instead of takin
At 3/8/2007 09:40 AM, Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
On the other hand, I personally believe that the use of a dl in this
example would make no *semantic* sense. After all, given the term
"President", the definition of that term would be something like "The
individual in charge of the organisation". "Joh
Let's take your example to the next level, what if the person who decided to
remove the "Age" column thinks there is no need for "Position" either, she'd
want to keep just the name, would you keep the table?
Then there would only be one coordinate, and I think a 1-dimensional
table -is- a list.
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2007, at 16:37:15, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> But this definition applies to more than just table elements,
>> isn't? In the
>> above, we could replace the words "first column" with "dt" and
>> "second column" with "dd" and it would make as much sense...
> On the
On 8 Mar 2007, at 16:37:15, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Paul Novitski wrote:
Pairs, triplets... the number of columns doesn't matter. For me a
table is a dataset naturally structured in rows and columns -- in
which everything in each column belongs to one class of data and
everything in each row i
Paul Novitski wrote:
> Pairs, triplets... the number of columns doesn't matter. For me a
> table is a dataset naturally structured in rows and columns -- in
> which everything in each column belongs to one class of data and
> everything in each row is one associated group. In your example, the
>
Frank Palinkas wrote:
> FWIW, my interpretation of what constitutes tabular data relies on the
> meaning of the data being directly associated to its grid
> coordinates, i.e. the intersection of a column and row. The column
> coordinate + the row coordinate gives specific meaning to the data
> loca
Kenny Graham wrote:
>> What for you makes a list of "name/value" pairs tabular data?
> Besides the fact that "name/value" is an example of what would go
> inside some s? Or in this case name and position. I guess the
> situation I'm forced to wonder about in regards to your stance on this
> is t
Katrina wrote:
>> Forget about how it should be marked up or presented, the "issue" is
>> about *defining* what tabular data is.
>> What's your definition of tabular data?
> Data that is separated by a tab character (such as tsv files etc).
I don't think this relates *directly* to HTML though, it
At 3/7/2007 11:13 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
What's your definition of tabular data? Actually, what if there was only one
row for our example?
Would you consider marking up the following with a table?
President..John Smith
What for you makes a list of "name/valu
these items.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, 08 March, 2007 9:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Talking about tabular data...
Paul Novitski wrote:
> At 3/6/2007 05:51 PM, Thie
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
Paul Novitski wrote:
At 3/6/2007 05:51 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
President..John Smith
Vice-president.Janet Jones
In other words, the items in the two columns line up horizontally,
and the cell
What for you makes a list of "name/value" pairs tabular data?
Besides the fact that "name/value" is an example of what would go
inside some s? Or in this case name and position. I guess the
situation I'm forced to wonder about in regards to your stance on this
is this: You have a 3 column tab
Paul Novitski wrote:
> At 3/6/2007 05:51 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> President..John Smith
>> Vice-president.Janet Jones
>>
>> In other words, the items in the two columns line up horizontally,
>> and the cell on the left is fille
I'm curious to know what members of this group think about this. Should this
be considered tabular data or not?
Do you consider a table the best tool to mark this up? Or at least as good
as anything else?
I think a definition list fits better, even though it's a slight abuse
of DL it does basica
At 3/6/2007 05:51 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
President..John Smith
Vice-president.Janet Jones
In other words, the items in the two columns line up horizontally, and the
cell on the left is filled out with dots.
I'm curious to k
Table of Malcontents
Name
Comments
Me
Is this tabular data?
> At 3/6/2007 11:04 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> For me if it fits in a two column table then it's not tabular data.
> And self-contradictory: if it "fits in a table" then
> it is by definition "tabular," number of columns aside.
I didn't say that. What I said is if it *only* fits in a table th
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
President..John Smith
Vice-president.Janet Jones
I see this as something that could be, or even should be, presented
(styled) in a table-like manner, but I would normally not mark something
like this up in a table.
Rob Kirton wrote:
Barney
I don't see this as being a definition list. 39 does not define Chapter
1, it is an indicator of where to find chapter 1. It is arguably a
table, as in table of contents. Of course it is all a bit of an odd case
considering the web. Web pages aren't paper, and trying
Barney
I don't see this as being a definition list. 39 does not define Chapter 1,
it is an indicator of where to find chapter 1. It is arguably a table, as in
table of contents. Of course it is all a bit of an odd case considering the
web. Web pages aren't paper, and trying to replicate the beha
Tables always get people dancing around the room, mostly drunk.
The presentation seems unusual as does the term 'table' (possibly
because there's only two values per row). But the most common instance
of tables in print is the table of contents, which is exactly like this.
Try arguing that isn
David Pietersen wrote:
Sorry if this has already come up... but have you seen these?
http://www.lenef.com/dotleader/
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/bmerkey/examples/dot-leaders.html
And another, One I did a while back :
http://www.webscribe.fsnet.co.uk/menufiles/mk/mkchapters.html
--
Bob
At 3/6/2007 11:04 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:
For me if it fits in a two column table then it's not tabular data.
Yikes-a-roonie! That is the most refreshingly bizarre assertion I've
heard all day. And self-contradictory: if it "fits in a table" then
it is by definition "tabular," number of
thanks for your explanation.
dwain
On 3/7/07, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i don't think you are missing anything. imo what you are proposing
Actually I think I was missing something, because in my opinion, this was
a
no brainer and I didn't expect these answers at all.
For
> i don't think you are missing anything. imo what you are proposing
Actually I think I was missing something, because in my opinion, this was a
no brainer and I didn't expect these answers at all.
For me if it fits in a two column table then it's not tabular data. I have a
need for a table when
Dwain Alford wrote:
ok, i'll bite. how does it change the meaning? i really don't
understand what you mean. after reading a later post about screen
readers and how they would go crazy with the dots, that i
understand;
but again, i don't understand your statement about changing the
meaning.
ok, i'll bite. how does it change the meaning? i really don't understand
what you mean. after reading a later post about screen readers and how they
would go crazy with the dots, that i understand; but again, i don't
understand your statement about changing the meaning. what is the meaning
in
David Pietersen wrote:
Sorry if this has already come up... but have you seen these?
http://www.lenef.com/dotleader/
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/bmerkey/examples/dot-leaders.html
I would suggest that the last one was an example of *table* of contents.
John Faulds said:
"I tend to think
Dwain Alford wrote:
maybe having a "set in stone" definition of what is tabular data and
what isn't would be easier than what we have?
if it was easy to come up with a definitive definition, then yes.
ok, i'll just splurge out two random things that popped into my
head...the way i see it, it
Sorry if this has already come up... but have you seen these?
http://www.lenef.com/dotleader/
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/bmerkey/examples/dot-leaders.html
On 3/7/07, Dwain Alford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
i don't think you are missing anything. imo what you are proposing in
your example i
> Not only that the dots look clunky, like a word document user who hasn't yet
> discovered tabs, and so just uses stops or the space bar.
If the dots were essential, they should be created using CSS (definitely
presentational as they are there to help line up the two blocks of content).
This woul
after reading the comments posted here, i guess that standards are what
makes you feel good.
maybe having a "set in stone" definition of what is tabular data and what
isn't would be easier than what we have? it seems to me that the intent of
the author plays a big role in how the document is cra
Tables are the go Thierry. The names and functions are always correctly
justified that way.
Not only that the dots look clunky, like a word document user who hasn't
yet discovered tabs, and so just uses stops or the space bar.
best
Rob
Robert Robinson BSS (Applied Psych & Pers Mgt & IR)
e-P
A table seems fine as would a definition list.
Jim
--
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Just ask Microsoft!"
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Do you consider a table the best tool to mark this up? Or at least as good
as anything else?
I think it could either be a table or a definition list.
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I tend to think of tabular data as that which, if you were to pull one row
out at random and without reference to the column headings, it wouldn't
make a lot of sense. That's not the case with your example where it's
fairly obvious how the two pieces of information are related.
On Wed, 07 M
i don't think you are missing anything. imo what you are proposing in your
example is not tabular data at all. it's content followed by a string of
dots ending in more content. if you are critized for thinking this is
tabular data, then you should be critized; but, if you are being critized
for
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