On 17/10/07 (13:55) I, myself, said:
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
Javascripted solutions seem like they would create
On 10/23/07, Moira Clunie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/19/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
not much good for someone using a device without sound
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Or Golan
I'm guessing that a person who uses a screen reader has sound
On 10/19/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
not much good for someone using a device without sound
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Or Golan
I'm guessing that a person who uses a screen reader has sound on his
device.
Not necessarily - screen reader
On 10/19/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
not much good for someone using a device without sound
I'm guessing that a person who uses a screen reader has sound on his device.
I'm not saying use only sound, but more like using a gif that has your email
in it, and when you click on it
Designer,
I'd advise you to use some comprehensive PHP mailing libraries (classes):
* PHPMailer (http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/)
* Swift mailer (http://www.swiftmailer.org/)
Regards,
on 10/19/2007 01:43 PM Designer said the following:
Ray Leventhal wrote:
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Ray Leventhal wrote:
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
my approach is usually not to put the email address on there and
instead provide a contact form,
one major annoyance of contact forms for me: as a sender, i don't have
a copy of the email in my email client's sent items folder.
depending on the
Taking a slightly different approach, any bot visiting your site knows
your domain name so at that point they don't need to find any addresses
to send to or from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, they'll likely assume that
things like [EMAIL PROTECTED] exist without you ever publishing an address
so
I was just about to post an idea, then i thought, it dont matter what you
do if a spam bot gets your email address, which they always do, your
going to get spam anyway.
So its best to just control it on your end.
In the real world businesses in prime locations get bombarded with junk
mail, so
Mike at Green-Beast.com skrev:
That said, even though people are the most difficult to control, they don't
seem to be the real problem. The problem seems to be with 'bots so that's
the form's main focus.
You're right, bots are the real problem to focus on.
/anders
@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links - and mail sender
Hi!
Mike at Green-Beast.com skrev:
I offer that in my contact form. It's a config option. The contact form
owner can enable/disable offering a get-a-copy option to his/her visitors
] On
Behalf Of Nick Fitzsimons
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:06 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
On 19 Oct 2007, at 04:59, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
I created a test page that demonstrates the technique. I tested it
with my
email but changed
Hi!
Chris Knowles skrev:
Plus you're still putting the
email address in the source code albeit a modified version. If this
became a popular way to handle mailtos a harvester is sure to be written
to pattern match http://.../com/... or http://.../com/au/... or whatever
at some stage and attempt
Andrew Maben wrote:
On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Dejan Kozina wrote:
Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing is up
there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your results.
worked for me: MacOS 10.4.9/Safari 2.0.4
Andrew
I noticed this
Andrew Maben wrote:
On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Dejan Kozina wrote:
Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing is up
there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your results.
worked for me: MacOS 10.4.9/Safari 2.0.4
Not mac or linux but...
win xp,
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
Good point, Patrick. I'll certainly consider offering
a checkbox as a UI option for 'send me a copy of
the contents of this form'.
I'd certainly be interested if this could be done in
php by assigning the user's mail address as a
string, then posting to it.
On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Dejan Kozina wrote:
Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing
is up
there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your
results.
worked for me: MacOS 10.4.9/Safari 2.0.4
Andrew
On 10/19/07, Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I noticed this page also uses entity encoding. This is a solution I have
used myself but the more I think about it the more I realise realise how
ineffective it is really.
take the following PHP code:
// some page fetching function
$html
On 19 Oct 2007, at 04:59, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
I created a test page that demonstrates the technique. I tested it
with my
email but changed it to a dummy domain so I won't get flooded with
emails.
Kepler, mydomain.com isn't a dummy domain:
djn,
I tested on Kubuntu 7.04 using the following browsers:
* Konqueror 3.5.6, correct behavior, opens the default mail
application with the email in the TO field
* Firefox 2.0.0.6, incorrect, goes to a 302 Found page with a
matilto link to the email specifies.
Regards,
on
Good point, Patrick. I'll certainly consider offering
a checkbox as a UI option for 'send me a copy of
the contents of this form'.
I'd certainly be interested if this could be done in
php by assigning the user's mail address as a
string, then posting to it. Anyone done that?
I offer that
Hi!
Mike at Green-Beast.com skrev:
I offer that in my contact form. It's a config option. The contact form
owner can enable/disable offering a get-a-copy option to his/her visitors.
Is there any way to protect this from being used as a way to send out
spam? You can't really know that people
Screen readers run on top of normal browsers like IE of Firefox
Didn't know that this is how screen readers work.
Well, the best way to let visually impaired people see your email, is just
do something the spambots can't get and the ones you want to gets the email
will get it. Simply put it as an
Hi!
Nikita The Spider The Spider skrev:
You might be interested in an experiment I ran that compared a few
techniques for protecting one's email address from harvesting bots.
The short answer: entity references worked very well
I think the time span of your study is to short.
I have used the
On 10/18/07, Anders Nawroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi!
Nikita The Spider The Spider skrev:
You might be interested in an experiment I ran that compared a few
techniques for protecting one's email address from harvesting bots.
The short answer: entity references worked very well
I
Nikita The Spider The Spider wrote:
On 10/18/07, Anders Nawroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi!
Nikita The Spider The Spider skrev:
You might be interested in an experiment I ran that compared a few
techniques for protecting one's email address from harvesting bots.
The short answer: entity
Hi!
Ray Leventhal skrev:
As a matter of preference, I generally try to eliminate all mailto:
links on any site I've been asked to work on. In place, I use a contact
form,
Me too :-)
But then you get form-post spam after a while ...
I have begun to add a random token as a hidden field to
On 18 Oct 2007, at 15:49, Anders Nawroth wrote:
IMHO captchas are used too much, as they suck considerably!
And they are also frowned upon by the W3C because of their
inaccessibility, and the fact that they provide a false sense of
security:
http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/
I just got curious and went on to test that .htaccess trick in the real
world. I'd say that I'm less than happy with the results.
I tried some tests with similar behavior. I think I found a technique that
gets around the problem. By initiating the mailto: redirect from an object
embedded on
I've followed the technique below; I find it much simpler to follow
these techniques (and change the fieldnames occasionally), than try
to get accurate spam filtering at the server level. We actually
hired a company, spamstop.ca, to filter our results for our College.
It's better, but
On Oct 19, 2007, at 5:19 AM, Dejan Kozina wrote:
Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing
is up
there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your
results.
running OS X 10.4.10 + Mail.app
* WebKit latest build + Safari 3.0beta + Safari 2.04 : opens a
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
my approach is usually not to put the email address on there and
instead provide a contact form,
one major annoyance of contact forms for me: as a sender, i don't have
a copy of the email in my email client's sent items folder.
depending on the complexity of what i'm
, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
My personal policy is to never put an email address on the web unless it's
written out using plain text
The problem there is that, quite often, you don't have much control over
things like web-based email
Well, the best way to let visually impaired people see your email, is
just do something the spambots can't get and the ones you want to gets the
email will get it. Simply put it as an audio file. Record yourself reading
your email, the spambots can't get it and the people using screen readers
On 10/18/07, Anders Nawroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ray Leventhal skrev:
As a matter of preference, I generally try to eliminate all mailto:
links on any site I've been asked to work on. In place, I use a contact
form,
Me too :-)
But then you get form-post spam after a while ...
I
Hello all again.
I just got curious and went on to test that .htaccess trick in the real
world. I'd say that I'm less than happy with the results.
With Thunderbird as the default mail app on Windows XP SP2, IE7, Firefox
2.0.0.7 and Seamonkey 1.1.4 did indeed open a new message window with
the
Hi Anders,
Ray Leventhal wrote:
As a matter of preference, I generally try to eliminate all mailto:
links on any site I've been asked to work on. In place, I use a contact
form,
Anders Nawroth wrote:
Me too :-)
But then you get form-post spam after a while ...
To minimize form-post
Hi,
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
Javascripted solutions seem like they would create a headache for screen
readers,
Rick Lecoat
Is there a way out what seems, to my inexperienced eyes, like
a catch-22
situation?
Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the web page
end, would be my advice.
P
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor
Enterprise Development
Rick Lecoat wrote:
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
Javascripted solutions seem like they would create a headache
Rick Lecoat
Is there a way out what seems, to my inexperienced eyes, like
a catch-22
situation?
Patrick Lauke wrote:
Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the web
page end, would be my advice.
This is good advice and raises the question of whether theres
Hi!
Chris Knowles skrev:
maybe harvesters look for the ASCII value of the @ symbol and find
addresses still?
Some harvesters decodes the links, so this is not a solution to the spam
problem. The decoding is really trivial to perform in most programming
languages.
/anders
On 17 Oct 2007, at 13:55, Rick Lecoat wrote:
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of
encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
I, long ago, gave up trying. Methods
On Oct 17, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Rick Lecoat wrote:
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of
encoding
a mailto: link?
To answer a question w/ a question: I have started encoding email
address strings, but your question makes me wonder how accessible
this may be? How
On 17/10/07 (14:16) Patrick said:
Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the
web page end, would be my advice.
David said:
I, long ago, gave up trying. Methods are either highly ineffective,
or block out users you want as well as spam bots. I take the view
that
Why not simply display the email address as a simple mailto only when the
browser is a screen reader?
On 10/17/07, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 17/10/07 (14:16) Patrick said:
Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the
web page end, would be my advice.
On 18/10/07 (15:20) Chris said:
Well I guess now I really think about it you can't solve it as you could
append an email address to the DOM from an obfuscated javascript
function and that would likely solve the problem but it's not an
accessible solution. For screen readers you need to have the
Rick Lecoat wrote:
I'm surprised that there
isn't a workaround -- only because almost everything else that I thought
would be impossible some clever person has found a way to do.
Well I guess now I really think about it you can't solve it as you could
append an email address to the DOM from an
On 17/10/07 (15:33) Or said:
Why not simply display the email address as a simple mailto only when the
browser is a screen reader?
If you mean by CSS (display: none -- or similar -- for aural media
types), I'm not sure that would work because AFAIk spambots just look
through the source code of
Because you can't detect when a screen reader is there or not...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Or Golan
Sent: 17 October 2007 15:33
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Why not simply
Rick Lecoat
To join with Andrew Maben, however, I'd be curious to know whether
spambots decode encoded entity text, eg:
'user'
becomes
'#117;#115;#101;#114;'
(ignore quote marks).
I assume that they can read them perfectly easily -- browsers
can, after
all -- but it'd
Rick Lecoat
If you are talking about actually hiding markup from certain agent
types, I'd certainly like to know your method.
Screen readers run on top of normal browsers like IE of Firefox, so
user-agent-wise you won't be able to really distinguish them. You *may* be able
to catch some
On Oct 17, 2007, at 11:19 AM, Patrick Lauke wrote:
All that would take for a spambot is to do a two-pass: replace all
encoded entities, then scan the result for email-address-like
patterns. Trivial.
Thanks, Patrick - guess I'll abandon that effort...
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: Or Golan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Why not simply display the email address as a simple mailto only when the
browser is a screen reader?
On 10/17/07, Rick
On 17/10/07 (16:20) Patrick said:
Screen readers run on top of normal browsers like IE of Firefox
Ah, I did *not* know that -- I thought that they were a sort of self-
contained browser themselves. Thanks for that heads-up.
--
Rick Lecoat
Hello list. This is what I use in my Smarty templates:
a href=mailto:{ #email#|escape:hex }
{ #email#|escape:hexentity }
/a
With this, [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes:
a href=mailto:%6d%65%40%6d%65%2e%63%6f%6d;
program.
No screen reader problems, no uninstalled javascript problems, etc. It just
works. KISS.
From: Dejan Kozina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
With this, [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes:
a href=mailto:%6d%65%40%6d%65%2e%63%6f%6d;
#x6d;#x65;#x40;#x6d;#x65;#x2e;#x63
On 10/17/07, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
Hi Rick,
You might be
Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the
web page end, would be my advice.
not a solution ... we all know how hard it is for any filtering software to
determine whether something is spam or not...
...and any machine-readable version of an email address on a page
Why not simply display the email address as a simple mailto only when the
browser is a screen reader?
If you mean by CSS (display: none -- or similar -- for aural media
types), I'm not sure that would work because AFAIk spambots just look
through the source code of the page for mailto links.
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