Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Russ Weakley]

I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like?


Imho, it goes against the separation of structure and presentation  
(plus it
messes up with the cascade), but I can understand why they are doing  
this.
Since most people strongly believe that CSS validation is a must,  
they have

to offer a solution that comes with the "badge".

Fwiw, I'd delete that junk markup and go with good old _property and
*property hacks ;-)


I like to concept of Conditional Comments around the , and can  
see your point about it going against the concept of structure/ 
presentation. Regardless, I have two other concerns:


1. to stop IE8 stalling, you have to place an empty conditional  
comment near the top of the document head. I'm sure that every time  
one of these is added to a document a fairy dies somewhere. Details  
here (under "Update"):

http://www.phpied.com/conditional-comments-block-downloads/

2. if you use a CMS that pushes classes into the  element, you  
are in all sorts of trouble with this method.


If you really like this method, an alternative is to use the same  
method on the  element.

http://htmlcssjavascript.com/css/rethinking-the-how-to-serve-ie-specific-css-question/

Here is a sample page (view source to see the Conditional Comments  
around the head element):

http://htmlcssjavascript.com/samples/cc/mine.html

The bottom line is that all solutions when dealing with earlier  
versions of IE are going to be some sort of hack - whether it is a CSS  
hack or an HTML hack - it comes down to choices that you have to make...


- which is most efficient
- which is most future proof (won't come back and bite you)
- which is easiest to maintain
etc

Thanks
Russ



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RE: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Thierry Koblentz]

> I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like?

Imho, it goes against the separation of structure and presentation (plus it
messes up with the cascade), but I can understand why they are doing this.
Since most people strongly believe that CSS validation is a must, they have
to offer a solution that comes with the "badge".
 
Fwiw, I'd delete that junk markup and go with good old _property and
*property hacks ;-)

In any case, they are plenty of good things in there. A lot to learn...

--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz




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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Tom Livingston]

Like the site says, it's "delete-key friendly" :-)


On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, David Hucklesby  wrote:
> On 8/12/10 4:57 AM, Tom Livingston wrote:
>>
>> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?
>>
>> http://html5boilerplate.com/
>>
>> Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?
>>
>
> Some useful ideas there, although I won't be using it "as-is."
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> Cordially,
> David
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Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[David Hucklesby]

On 8/12/10 4:57 AM, Tom Livingston wrote:

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?

http://html5boilerplate.com/

Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?



Some useful ideas there, although I won't be using it "as-is."
Thanks for sharing.

Cordially,
David
--



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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Patrick H. Lauke]

On 12/08/2010 14:55, Hugo Mendes wrote:

I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but an "HTML5 Professional Template"
with BROWSER DETECTION (those conditional comments in the markup) is
not a best practice.


It's certainly ugly, but a very pragmatic way of having style fixes for 
the various broken versions of old IE in a way that works even without 
JavaScript. And the template is a starting point, so you're free to just 
edit out the bits that are too fugly.


P



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Sam Sherlock  wrote:

Dan I would look past per-site design choices such as that.
and look into the neat and beneficial features which are many and various
(also the example in use there is outdated compared with the code on github)
the site has the initial release of html5boilerplate where as the github
repo is stages ahead of this
http://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/index.html
also it is not finished 100% some tweaks to go - mid aug apparently
  - S



--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Tom Livingston]

I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like?



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Hugo Mendes  wrote:
> I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but an "HTML5 Professional Template"
> with BROWSER DETECTION (those conditional comments in the markup) is
> not a best practice.
>
> - HM
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Sam Sherlock  wrote:
>> Dan I would look past per-site design choices such as that.
>> and look into the neat and beneficial features which are many and various
>> (also the example in use there is outdated compared with the code on github)
>> the site has the initial release of html5boilerplate where as the github
>> repo is stages ahead of this
>> http://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/index.html
>> also it is not finished 100% some tweaks to go - mid aug apparently
>>  - S
>>
>>
>> On 12 August 2010 14:24, Dan Freeman  wrote:
>>>
>>> Considering the link doesn't even look right in IE8, I'm not sure I'd use
>>> it to build anything.
>>>
>>> Dan Freeman
>>> Webmaster & ERP Administrator
>>> 800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
>>> 330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
>>> www.lexi.com
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Tom Livingston
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:58 AM
>>> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>>> Subject: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
>>>
>>> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?
>>>
>>> http://html5boilerplate.com/
>>>
>>> Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
>>> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
>>>
>>>
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-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Hugo Mendes]

I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but an "HTML5 Professional Template"
with BROWSER DETECTION (those conditional comments in the markup) is
not a best practice.

- HM

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Sam Sherlock  wrote:
> Dan I would look past per-site design choices such as that.
> and look into the neat and beneficial features which are many and various
> (also the example in use there is outdated compared with the code on github)
> the site has the initial release of html5boilerplate where as the github
> repo is stages ahead of this
> http://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/index.html
> also it is not finished 100% some tweaks to go - mid aug apparently
>  - S
>
>
> On 12 August 2010 14:24, Dan Freeman  wrote:
>>
>> Considering the link doesn't even look right in IE8, I'm not sure I'd use
>> it to build anything.
>>
>> Dan Freeman
>> Webmaster & ERP Administrator
>> 800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
>> 330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
>> www.lexi.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom Livingston
>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:58 AM
>> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>> Subject: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
>>
>> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?
>>
>> http://html5boilerplate.com/
>>
>> Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
>> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
>>
>>
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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Sam Sherlock]

Dan I would look past per-site design choices such as that.

and look into the neat and beneficial features which are many and various

(also the example in use there is outdated compared with the code on github)

the site has the initial release of html5boilerplate where as the github
repo is stages ahead of this

http://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/index.html

also it is not finished 100% some tweaks to go - mid aug apparently

 - S


On 12 August 2010 14:24, Dan Freeman  wrote:

> Considering the link doesn't even look right in IE8, I'm not sure I'd use
> it to build anything.
>
> Dan Freeman
> Webmaster & ERP Administrator
> 800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
> 330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
> www.lexi.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom Livingston
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:58 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?
>
> http://html5boilerplate.com/
>
> Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?
>
> --
>
> Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
>
>
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RE: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Dan Freeman]

Considering the link doesn't even look right in IE8, I'm not sure I'd use
it to build anything.

Dan Freeman
Webmaster & ERP Administrator
800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE)
330.655.0341 (DIRECT)
www.lexi.com

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Livingston
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:58 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?

http://html5boilerplate.com/

Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?

-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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LEXI-COMP CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this electronic mail is intended for the named 
recipients only.  Any use of this information by anyone other than 
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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Tom Livingston]

What is " profrontend template " ?

Tnx


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Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
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Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate

[Sam Sherlock]

I find it works really well

minimal files &  overhead with lots of addition life smoothing extras

(in my case *it* refers to profrontend template rather than boilerplate but
has same practices)

I would be interested to hear what others have to say too :)

 - S


On 12 August 2010 12:57, Tom Livingston  wrote:

> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Worth a try? On a production site?
>
> http://html5boilerplate.com/
>
> Looks pretty good to me... what say ye?
>
> --
>
> Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
> ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
>
>
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