Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Yes, how true. Scientifically, we evoke stress whenever our decision making processes are in play. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN varam...@gmail.comwrote: ** ... Thinking of future and future problems might create anxiety and stress. However, that is not when the stress really originates. Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. In moving away from now, you move away from life, you move away from vitality, you move away from yourself. Having moved away from now, you feel like a fish out of water. The thought world of human mind is a barren life-less land devoid of vitality. In this land, anxiety naturally results. This is the anxiety of being away from your natural state. This is the anxiety of being away from your home. This anxiety is the anxiety of separateness. This is the anxiety of missing life, anxiety of missing vitality, anxiety of missing peace. Only way out is to return home. Return to Grace. Return to Self. Return to Now... ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesig91RCxU ECKHART TOLLE -- Thanks and best regards J.Suresh New No.3, Old No.7, Chamiers road - 1st Lane, Alwarpet, Chennai - 600018 Ph: 044 42030947 Mobile: 91 9884071738 -- *Larry Maher*
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: ** Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher*
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
More to the point, who thinks they need to? ;) On 8/27/2013 3:30 PM, larry maher wrote: The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- /Larry Maher/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com wrote: ** All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... kris@...wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher*
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Falling 'victim' to this world may apear to be a trap, or a frenzied game of in and out like 'Whack-aMole', or some twisted Fun House mirror maze - but how else can this appear? ;) Seeking to escape such appearances, to seek to only have personally preferable experiences, is what Siddhartha Gotama called desire. Folks here have read enough on where that leads. Worldly preferences for vanilla vs. chocolate, or black robes vs. yellow, or boys vs. girls - are of no concern as temporal enjoyments experienced as they present -they are aspects of the persona (mask) - unless there is attachment - by which I mean you experience some love/hate toward them. Same goes for pain/pleasure. These all arise naturally. It's what else comes up in response that seems problematic - but only this can offers us insight into our presumed and self-generated predicament. Grasping and rejecting what presents, which along with/and reinforcing ignorance of our true nature, form 'The Three Poisons'. Thus many who are attached to developing better/higher/more spiritual selves, to any personal attainment, seal their fate as surely as the most profane 'sinner'. That is not to say don't do 'spiritually' oriented things, but rather not to be beguiled by them. Spirit is expression, not collection. Holy/Spiritual Ego is the most deceptive of all its disguises, and is always passing the plate asking for more (devotion, practice, mindfulness, whatever). The best you can do is remember? This is not mindfulness. Memory is a habit. Attachment to/dreams of reviving the dead. Pure delusion. Forgetting is little better. Rejection of same empty baggage (3 Poisons - again). Simply laugh, or cry. KG PS - Buddha said Karma is intention. I'd add that Suffering is expectation. Two sides of same worthless coin. Whatever troubles you - simplify your inquiry by first looking into your intentions and expectations. They're the Yin/Yang of self-delusion. Nothing against using the imagination for planning and reflection - but things get sticky all too easily as soon as we begin to believe any of it. Non-attachment, is not detachment. It is the cessation (effortlessly - by realization, not effort) of the delusional cycle of attachment and rejection. Only this allows direct engagement - and vice versa. Rambling again, more words only makes a mess. Edit the above to just the first two lines of the PS - as that contains the rest. On 8/27/2013 4:37 PM, larry maher wrote: Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:k...@kgrey.com wrote: All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... mailto:kris@... wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- /Larry Maher/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Really good stuff, thanks. I used 'victim' as a sort of a what? joke? quick word? Anyway you sound really really adept in this shit. envy you? You must lead a very happy, fulfilling life? Unfortunately for me I was born as far away being an avatar as one motherf'' er can get. Brooklyn street kid and all. But my kids did better. One an emergency doc, one's almost out of surgery school and sadly, one turned out more like me. But he's found a good girl that's kicking his ass into shape just as my wifey did to me:) Thanks again, Larry PS: If you ever feel the need for some long term suffering my wife's got a single sister :-) On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com wrote: ** Falling 'victim' to this world may apear to be a trap, or a frenzied game of in and out like 'Whack-aMole', or some twisted Fun House mirror maze - but how else can this appear? ;) Seeking to escape such appearances, to seek to only have personally preferable experiences, is what Siddhartha Gotama called desire. Folks here have read enough on where that leads. Worldly preferences for vanilla vs. chocolate, or black robes vs. yellow, or boys vs. girls - are of no concern as temporal enjoyments experienced as they present -they are aspects of the persona (mask) - unless there is attachment - by which I mean you experience some love/hate toward them. Same goes for pain/pleasure. These all arise naturally. It's what else comes up in response that seems problematic - but only this can offers us insight into our presumed and self-generated predicament. Grasping and rejecting what presents, which along with/and reinforcing ignorance of our true nature, form 'The Three Poisons'. Thus many who are attached to developing better/higher/more spiritual selves, to any personal attainment, seal their fate as surely as the most profane 'sinner'. That is not to say don't do 'spiritually' oriented things, but rather not to be beguiled by them. Spirit is expression, not collection. Holy/Spiritual Ego is the most deceptive of all its disguises, and is always passing the plate asking for more (devotion, practice, mindfulness, whatever). The best you can do is remember? This is not mindfulness. Memory is a habit. Attachment to/dreams of reviving the dead. Pure delusion. Forgetting is little better. Rejection of same empty baggage (3 Poisons - again). Simply laugh, or cry. KG PS - Buddha said Karma is intention. I'd add that Suffering is expectation. Two sides of same worthless coin. Whatever troubles you - simplify your inquiry by first looking into your intentions and expectations. They're the Yin/Yang of self-delusion. Nothing against using the imagination for planning and reflection - but things get sticky all too easily as soon as we begin to believe any of it. Non-attachment, is not detachment. It is the cessation (effortlessly - by realization, not effort) of the delusional cycle of attachment and rejection. Only this allows direct engagement - and vice versa. Rambling again, more words only makes a mess. Edit the above to just the first two lines of the PS - as that contains the rest. On 8/27/2013 4:37 PM, larry maher wrote: Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com wrote: All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... kris@...wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG --
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Joke, Cosmic or otherwise (which of course isn't), is as good a word as any. The serious practitioner/religious types tend to take offense if anyone suggests there is a punchline to 'enlightenment'. Adept? Now that's funny. This shit is simply what it is, and never what we think it is. Delusion draws lines between the ordinary and the extraordinary. Amazing shit! As for the stories surrounding your birth, every thought and sensation that arises and passes is a birth, and a death. That we believe any to be greater, more valuable, or more significant than any other is quite funny. Ever lost in drawing our maps... KG On 8/27/2013 8:08 PM, larry maher wrote: Really good stuff, thanks. I used 'victim' as a sort of a what? joke? quick word? Anyway you sound really really adept in this shit. envy you? You must lead a very happy, fulfilling life? Unfortunately for me I was born as far away being an avatar as one motherf'' er can get. Brooklyn street kid and all. But my kids did better. One an emergency doc, one's almost out of surgery school and sadly, one turned out more like me. But he's found a good girl that's kicking his ass into shape just as my wifey did to me:) Thanks again, Larry PS: If you ever feel the need for some long term suffering my wife's got a single sister :-) On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:k...@kgrey.com wrote: Falling 'victim' to this world may apear to be a trap, or a frenzied game of in and out like 'Whack-aMole', or some twisted Fun House mirror maze - but how else can this appear? ;) Seeking to escape such appearances, to seek to only have personally preferable experiences, is what Siddhartha Gotama called desire. Folks here have read enough on where that leads. Worldly preferences for vanilla vs. chocolate, or black robes vs. yellow, or boys vs. girls - are of no concern as temporal enjoyments experienced as they present -they are aspects of the persona (mask) - unless there is attachment - by which I mean you experience some love/hate toward them. Same goes for pain/pleasure. These all arise naturally. It's what else comes up in response that seems problematic - but only this can offers us insight into our presumed and self-generated predicament. Grasping and rejecting what presents, which along with/and reinforcing ignorance of our true nature, form 'The Three Poisons'. Thus many who are attached to developing better/higher/more spiritual selves, to any personal attainment, seal their fate as surely as the most profane 'sinner'. That is not to say don't do 'spiritually' oriented things, but rather not to be beguiled by them. Spirit is expression, not collection. Holy/Spiritual Ego is the most deceptive of all its disguises, and is always passing the plate asking for more (devotion, practice, mindfulness, whatever). The best you can do is remember? This is not mindfulness. Memory is a habit. Attachment to/dreams of reviving the dead. Pure delusion. Forgetting is little better. Rejection of same empty baggage (3 Poisons - again). Simply laugh, or cry. KG PS - Buddha said Karma is intention. I'd add that Suffering is expectation. Two sides of same worthless coin. Whatever troubles you - simplify your inquiry by first looking into your intentions and expectations. They're the Yin/Yang of self-delusion. Nothing against using the imagination for planning and reflection - but things get sticky all too easily as soon as we begin to believe any of it. Non-attachment, is not detachment. It is the cessation (effortlessly - by realization, not effort) of the delusional cycle of attachment and rejection. Only this allows direct engagement - and vice versa. Rambling again, more words only makes a mess. Edit the above to just the first two lines of the PS - as that contains the rest. On 8/27/2013 4:37 PM, larry maher wrote: Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com mailto:k...@kgrey.com wrote: All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill!
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
On 8/27/2013 8:08 PM, larry maher wrote: You must lead a very happy, fulfilling life? PS - Seriously, how f'ing boring would THAT be? Like it or not, contrasts reveal highlights. Only the darkness can carry the light, only the light can fill the darkness.. KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Andrew, What this statement means to me is the the PERCEPTION (thoughts about) 'now' (experience) might have the shelf-life of 3 seconds, but perceptions are not experience. All thoughts, IMO, are either memories (past) or projections (future), both of which are delusions. Only experience is now. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@... wrote: The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: ** Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher* Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Larry, We all fall victim to it. That's all part of being human. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@... wrote: Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: ** All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ kris@wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher* Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
What 'now'? Beyond its use as a conceptual dead end - no such thing can be found. There is only experiencing. Experiences and experiencers, just aspects of this. To call this eternally ever-presently unfolding experiencing 'the now' is preposterous. But then so is any way of saying this. ;) Like I just said to Larry: We are lost in drawing our own maps... KG On 8/27/2013 9:18 PM, Bill! wrote: Andrew, What this statement means to me is the the PERCEPTION (thoughts about) 'now' (experience) might have the shelf-life of 3 seconds, but perceptions are not experience. All thoughts, IMO, are either memories (past) or projections (future), both of which are delusions. Only experience is now. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@... wrote: The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: ** Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher*
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Awakening, to perpetual free-fall... KG On 8/27/2013 9:20 PM, Bill! wrote: Larry, We all fall victim to it. That's all part of being human. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@... wrote: Thank you so much for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: ** All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions, reactions. Seemly that, Seamless this. The neural lag/disconnect are aspects of 'Maya', the dance or interplay (Lila) therewith. In that sense, illusory. Like time. Nothing escapes Indra's net, nothing caught by it. Only the ever-present interweaving of emptiness into suchness. To parrot-phrase Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray - who Suresh might enjoy reading as no doubt Mr. Tolle has): 'Maya' = manifestation. KG On 8/27/2013 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ kris@wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher*
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Why read, interpret, and re-dictate this stuff if it's not making you happy? Or would you rather be an erudite simply content with winning every argument or, in this case, creating one where one isn't Jesus Christ! Or is it Buddha! Or Vishnu? Lighten up dude, all victories are Pyrrhic.
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Kris, I'm not drawing any maps. I'm just saying we are always HERE. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: What 'now'? Beyond its use as a conceptual dead end - no such thing can be found. There is only experiencing. Experiences and experiencers, just aspects of this. To call this eternally ever-presently unfolding experiencing 'the now' is preposterous. But then so is any way of saying this. ;) Like I just said to Larry: We are lost in drawing our own maps... KG On 8/27/2013 9:18 PM, Bill! wrote: Andrew, What this statement means to me is the the PERCEPTION (thoughts about) 'now' (experience) might have the shelf-life of 3 seconds, but perceptions are not experience. All thoughts, IMO, are either memories (past) or projections (future), both of which are delusions. Only experience is now. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@ wrote: The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: ** Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher* Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Bill!,br/br/There's nothing wrong with maps as long as they're not taken to be the 'real' destination. Same as time (clocks) and spiritual paths (although, of course, there is a danger in believing that a spiritual path leads to a destination). These are good examples of Buddha's teaching that there are 2 truths - relative truth and absolute truth. As long as the relative is not taken as the ultimate, and vice-versa, then the ultimate truth will not be obscured.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS
Good stuff On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 11:35 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: ** Bill!, There's nothing wrong with maps as long as they're not taken to be the 'real' destination. Same as time (clocks) and spiritual paths (although, of course, there is a danger in believing that a spiritual path leads to a destination). These are good examples of Buddha's teaching that there are 2 truths - relative truth and absolute truth. As long as the relative is not taken as the ultimate, and vice-versa, then the ultimate truth will not be obscured. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad -- * From: * Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org; * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; * Subject: * Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS * Sent: * Wed, Aug 28, 2013 2:10:16 AM Kris, I'm not drawing any maps. I'm just saying we are always HERE. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote: What 'now'? Beyond its use as a conceptual dead end - no such thing can be found. There is only experiencing. Experiences and experiencers, just aspects of this. To call this eternally ever-presently unfolding experiencing 'the now' is preposterous. But then so is any way of saying this. ;) Like I just said to Larry: We are lost in drawing our own maps... KG On 8/27/2013 9:18 PM, Bill! wrote: Andrew, What this statement means to me is the the PERCEPTION (thoughts about) 'now' (experience) might have the shelf-life of 3 seconds, but perceptions are not experience. All thoughts, IMO, are either memories (past) or projections (future), both of which are delusions. Only experience is now. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, larry maher lcmaher22@ wrote: The 'Now' seems to be a three second bit of awareness continually rolling by us. At least that's what some researchers say. Of course, who knows? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: ** Kris, I agree. I call the thought world 'delusion' - past, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world of past and future. The thought world can only exist now. Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as the thought world of past and future is simply 'imagination', which can only presents as a problem to the extent you believe it to be separate or otherwise different from now. In an of itself, such thinking is just thinking. A useful survival mechanism. Realizing this, it serves. Deluded by this, it hinders. Now. KG -- *Larry Maher* -- *Larry Maher*
