From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
If something like this already exists, please let me know. Otherwise,
I
plan to:
Create zfshistory command, written in python. (open source, public,
free)
So, I
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
time
OK, I'll believe you.
How about this?
mv a/E/c a/c
mv a/E a/c
mv a/c a/E
The thing that's
On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:02 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
time
OK, I'll believe you.
How about this?
mv a/E/c a/c
On 25 apr 2010, at 20.12, Richard Elling wrote:
On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
Next,
mv /a/e /a/E
ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
ENOENT?
ls -l
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 10:43 AM
Nope. That discussion seems to be concluded now. And the netapp
does not
have the problem that was suspected.
I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of
the
From: Ragnar Sundblad [mailto:ra...@csc.kth.se]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:18 PM
To answer the question you linked to:
.shapshot/snapname.0/a/b/c/d.txt from the top of the filesystem
a/.snapshot/snapname.0/b/c/d.txt
a/e/.shapshot/snapname.0/c/d.txt
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Freddie Cash
From the sounds of it, the .snapshot directory is just a pointer to the
corresponding directory in the actual snapshot tree. The snapshots are
not actually saved per-directory.
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
Next,
mv /a/e /a/E
ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
ENOENT?
ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
this should be ENOENT because d.txt did not exist in a/E at snaptime.
On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
Next,
mv /a/e /a/E
ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
ENOENT?
ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
this should be ENOENT
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may sometimes have some
problems with mv directories ... This is evidence that appears to be
weakening ... Sometimes they do precisely what you would want them to
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
Actually, I find this very surprising:
On Apr 24, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of the
problem
is what you continue to miss.
Me too then, I think. Can you please enlighten us about the
definition of the problem?
The .snapshot directories do precisely what
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
One last try. If you change the real directory structure, how are
those
changes reflected in the snapshot directory structure?
Consider:
echo whee /a/b/c/d.txt
[snapshot]
mv /a/b /a/B
What does
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
Actually, I find this very surprising:
Question posted:
http://lopsa.org/pipermail/tech/2010-April/004356.html
As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Richard Elling
richard.ell...@gmail.com wrote:
Repeating my previous question in another way...
So how do they handle mv home/joeuser home/moeuser ?
Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
If you wanted to go into home/joeuser/.snapshot , I think
On 22/04/2010 00:14, Jason King wrote:
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
For CIFS ZFS provides the Volume Shadow Service (Previous Versions in
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Repeating my previous question in another way...
So how do they handle mv home/joeuser home/moeuser ?
Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
To make this work in ZFS, does this require that the mv(1)
command only work
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
To move closer to RFE status ... I think the description would have to be
written in verbage pertaining to zfs which is more than I know. I can
describe how they each work, but I can't make it technical enough to be an
RFE for zfs.
Someone would
On Apr 22, 2010, at 4:50 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Repeating my previous question in another way...
So how do they handle mv home/joeuser home/moeuser ?
Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
To make this work in ZFS,
Richard Elling richard.ell...@gmail.com wrote:
IIRC, POSIX does not permit hard links to directories. Moving or renaming
the directory structure gets disconnected from the original because these
are relative relationships. Clearly, NetApp achieves this in some manner
which is not constrained
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:10:09PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
filesystem root directories.
So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any problem
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 04:49:30PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote:
/foo is the filesystem
/foo/bar is a directory in the filesystem
cd /foo/bar/
touch stuff
[ you wait, time passes; a snapshot is taken ]
At this point /foo/bar/.snapshot/.../stuff exists
Now do this:
rm -rf /foo/bar
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
And you can even create, rename and destroy
On 4/21/10 6:49 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
And you can
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you've been following this thread. Nobody said
On 04/21/10 03:24 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure
From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
the
.zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
the
command locally. It will not work from a NFS client.
It will work over NFS
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:45:24AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
the
.zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
the
command
On 04/21/10 08:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
the
.zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
the
command locally. It will not work
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct .zfs
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Tim Haley
You can see it with ls:
# ls -ld -% all /net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc
drwxr-xr-x 9 timh staff 13 Apr 21 01:25
/net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc/
timestamp:
From: Brandon High [mailto:bh...@freaks.com]
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct
.zfs
On 21/04/2010 16:35, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
What happens when you remove the directory?
Same thing that happens when you remove the .zfs directory. You
can't.
Are you sure I cannot rmdir on a NetApp? That seems like basic
functionality to me.
Or are you thinking rmdir
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the snapdir property ('directory' ?) that provides this behavior (with
suitable warnings
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:03:39PM -0500, Jason King wrote:
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the snapdir property
Richard Elling wrote:
So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a symlink
to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would solve the directory shuffle problem.
Not quite. It's equivalent(ish) to:
cd $MYDIR mkdir .snapshot cd .snapshot
for s in $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot/*; do
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
At present, the workaround I have for zfs is:
ln -s .zfs/snapshot snapshot
This makes the snapshot directory plainly visible to all NFS and CIFS users.
Easy to find every time, easy to remember.
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Brandon High bh...@freaks.com wrote:
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned
From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
filesystem root directories.
So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any problem with it.
___
zfs-discuss
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
symlink
to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would solve the directory shuffle
problem.
Not quite.
In Ontap, all you do is go into .snapshot, and select which snap
If you did the symlink .snapshot -- $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot, and somehow
made
that magically appear in every directory all the time, you would have
this:
/share/home/joeuser/foo/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
/share/home/joeuser/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
symlink
to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would solve the directory shuffle
problem.
Not quite.
In
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
zfs list -t snapshot lists in time order.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my zfs send scripts but it's not
relevant for the case at hand. Because zfs list isn't available on the
NFS client, where the users are
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
zfs list -t snapshot lists in time order.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my zfs send scripts but it's not
relevant for the case at hand.
Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
zfs list -t snapshot lists in time order.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my zfs send scripts but it's not
relevant for the
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
solar...@nedharvey.com wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct .zfs
subdirectory, and then you need to figure out the name of the
On 4/17/2010 9:03 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
It would be cool to only list files which are different.
Know of any way to do that?
cmp
Oh, no. Because cmp and diff require reading both files, it could take
forever, especially if you have a lot of snapshots to check,
From: Kyle McDonald [mailto:kmcdon...@egenera.com]
I think I saw an ARC case go by recently for anew 'zfs diff' command. I
think it allows you compare 2 snapshots, or maybe the live filesystem
and a snapshot and see what's changed.
It sounds really useful, Hopefully it will integrate soon.
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
Um ... All the same time.
Even if I stat those directories ...
Access: Modify: and Change: are all useless...
which is why you need to stat the destination :-)
Ahh. I see it now.
By stat'ing the destination instead of the
If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct .zfs
subdirectory, and then you need to figure out the name of the snapshots
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct .zfs
On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
to know how far back up
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 02:19:47PM -0700, Richard Elling wrote:
On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
I've a ksh93 script that lists all the snapshotted versions of a file...
Works over NFS too.
% zfshist /usr/bin/ls
History for /usr/bin/ls (/.zfs/snapshot/*/usr/bin/ls):
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling richard.ell...@gmail.comwrote:
Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
What's a tracker.cfg, and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
systems? ;)
--
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
On Apr 16, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling richard.ell...@gmail.com
wrote:
Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
What's a tracker.cfg, and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
systems? ;)
tracker is the gnome
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
case, you
can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
sort by the
mtime of the destination.
Actually ...
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 20 Mar 29
On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
case, you
can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
sort by the
mtime of the
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