RE: [ZION] Leonid alert
At 07:46 PM 11/18/02, Marc Schindler wrote: For those who don't already know, tonight's supposed to be the storm of the century wrt the Leonids (the best show since the 1860s according to a local astronomer). Prime viewing time in the Mountain Standard Time Zone is 04:00 - 06:00 (well before dawn up here, which won't arrive until about 08:30), but the weather forecast is mostly cloudy -- better viewing weather in southern Alberta. Also, we have a near full moon, which may screen some of the dimmer meteorites. But I have my alarm clock set anyway! Well, the weather forecast for here turned out to be 100% correct: it is completely overcast. I could barely make out where the Moon is in the west. And these clouds are supposed to turn into the *other* kind of showers later today . . . At least there are the memories of last year's storm . . . -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Mail Returning
On another list it was possible to stop my own mail from coming back to me. Do we have such a provision on this list? Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] No Desire To Discuss What Is Forbidden
Guys and gals, I finally read the charter just now. I found out, to my utter delight, that I haven't violated any charter rules, nor did I ever have a desire to discuss such topics as are forbidden by charter rules. It seems as though I have already been obeying charter rules without even knowing it! What a delight to find out that the charter rules are not contrary to my own human nature and convention. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
-Stacy- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? I'm no authority on the matter, but I believe you are. As a general rule, it seems transparently obvious to me that altering one's brain chemistry can't lead to closer communion with the Spirit of God. Individual exceptions doubtless exist regarding those who supplement their natural deficiencies with attempted replacement; for example, I doubt epilepsy _per se_ brings people unto Christ, so Dilantin or something of the sort may well put those so afflicted in a literally better frame of mind. One of my favorite missionary companions, who became a close personal friend both during and after my mission, told me of his pre-mission, pre-Church-activity drug usage. He said that, in retrospect, a cocaine high reminded him of nothing so much as a deep spiritual experience -- except that there was no communion with the Spirit, and that true spirituality doesn't end with a crash that leaves the person suicidal. He believed that many drug users crave this feeling of spiritual peace and serenity, and that's why they become addicted. I realize you probably weren't talking about illegal drug usage, but I thought it a relevant insight anyway. Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
The question then remains: Can we legitimately use substances which would lower our anxiety level, especially if those substances are said to be nonaddictive? Stacy. At 05:52 PM 11/19/2002 +, you wrote: -Stacy- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? I'm no authority on the matter, but I believe you are. As a general rule, it seems transparently obvious to me that altering one's brain chemistry can't lead to closer communion with the Spirit of God. Individual exceptions doubtless exist regarding those who supplement their natural deficiencies with attempted replacement; for example, I doubt epilepsy _per se_ brings people unto Christ, so Dilantin or something of the sort may well put those so afflicted in a literally better frame of mind. One of my favorite missionary companions, who became a close personal friend both during and after my mission, told me of his pre-mission, pre-Church-activity drug usage. He said that, in retrospect, a cocaine high reminded him of nothing so much as a deep spiritual experience -- except that there was no communion with the Spirit, and that true spirituality doesn't end with a crash that leaves the person suicidal. He believed that many drug users crave this feeling of spiritual peace and serenity, and that's why they become addicted. I realize you probably weren't talking about illegal drug usage, but I thought it a relevant insight anyway. Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Leonid alert
Dan: We tried; the combination of the moon and city lights made it all but impossible to see anything. But we did catch a couple. Marc: For those who don't already know, tonight's supposed to be the storm of the century wrt the Leonids (the best show since the 1860s according to a local astronomer). Prime viewing time in the Mountain Standard Time Zone is 04:00 - 06:00 (well before dawn up here, which won't arrive until about 08:30), but the weather forecast is mostly cloudy -- better viewing weather in southern Alberta. Also, we have a near full moon, which may screen some of the dimmer meteorites. But I have my alarm clock set anyway! -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on ? Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
You know something I think of alot and wonder if any of y`all do is that Joseph Smith would not even drink the whiskey they tried to give him to dull the pain when they worked on his leg, do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? Just wondered what your feelings are on this? Sandra The question then remains: Can we legitimately use substances which would lower our anxiety level, especially if those substances are said to be nonaddictive? Stacy. At 05:52 PM 11/19/2002 +, you wrote: -Stacy- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? I'm no authority on the matter, but I believe you are. As a general rule, it seems transparently obvious to me that altering one's brain chemistry can't lead to closer communion with the Spirit of God. Individual exceptions doubtless exist regarding those who supplement their natural deficiencies with attempted replacement; for example, I doubt epilepsy _per se_ brings people unto Christ, so Dilantin or something of the sort may well put those so afflicted in a literally better frame of mind. One of my favorite missionary companions, who became a close personal friend both during and after my mission, told me of his pre-mission, pre-Church-activity drug usage. He said that, in retrospect, a cocaine high reminded him of nothing so much as a deep spiritual experience -- except that there was no communion with the Spirit, and that true spirituality doesn't end with a crash that leaves the person suicidal. He believed that many drug users crave this feeling of spiritual peace and serenity, and that's why they become addicted. I realize you probably weren't talking about illegal drug usage, but I thought it a relevant insight anyway. Stephen /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? The Lord gave mankind the power to invent and find ways to help us with our problems outside the bounds of prayers and blessings. Millions of people who don't believe in prayer and blessings are reaping the benefits of modern discovery. I'll take pills, blessings, and prayers. It's a pretty good combo but sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes nothing works. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Leonid alert
Bummer: I happened to be up at 0230 - 0600 because of a suspected subdural haematoma which not even 10 T-3's in 24 hours had put a dent into (not the most pleasant experience). It was almost certainly a severe migraine, as it turned out. I went to emergency and got a shot of toradol and that finally cut the pain and I went to sleep. But I was acutely aware of the weather. Mostly cloudy, and a very bright full moon. Nary a shooting star in sight. Ronn Blankenship wrote: At 07:46 PM 11/18/02, Marc Schindler wrote: For those who don't already know, tonight's supposed to be the storm of the century wrt the Leonids (the best show since the 1860s according to a local astronomer). Prime viewing time in the Mountain Standard Time Zone is 04:00 - 06:00 (well before dawn up here, which won't arrive until about 08:30), but the weather forecast is mostly cloudy -- better viewing weather in southern Alberta. Also, we have a near full moon, which may screen some of the dimmer meteorites. But I have my alarm clock set anyway! Well, the weather forecast for here turned out to be 100% correct: it is completely overcast. I could barely make out where the Moon is in the west. And these clouds are supposed to turn into the *other* kind of showers later today . . . At least there are the memories of last year's storm . . . -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] No Desire To Discuss What Is Forbidden
My only fear in bringing Pamela Anderson into the discussion was that I might be accused of artificiality (tiddly-BOOM) Stacy Smith wrote: Guys and gals, I finally read the charter just now. I found out, to my utter delight, that I haven't violated any charter rules, nor did I ever have a desire to discuss such topics as are forbidden by charter rules. It seems as though I have already been obeying charter rules without even knowing it! What a delight to find out that the charter rules are not contrary to my own human nature and convention. Stacy. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] No Desire To Discuss What Is Forbidden
-Marc- My only fear in bringing Pamela Anderson into the discussion was that I might be accused of artificiality (tiddly-BOOM) chemistry_humor As our Mexican neighbors might say, Si! Si! /chemistry_humor Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Public school standards
Part II in the series: Texas's experience: http://www.nationalpost.com/search/site/story.asp?id=9235B347-2E93-462C-8C3A-23C9F8254E66 -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
Amen. Stewardship over the Earth means to learn how to use what's here to improve our lives, imo. Paul Osborne wrote: do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? The Lord gave mankind the power to invent and find ways to help us with our problems outside the bounds of prayers and blessings. Millions of people who don't believe in prayer and blessings are reaping the benefits of modern discovery. I'll take pills, blessings, and prayers. It's a pretty good combo but sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes nothing works. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Men's Merit / Demerit Guide
[courtesy of my colleague, Dr. David Antoniuk at Alberta Innovation Science, who disavows all responsibility for it, 'natch!] Men's Merit/Demerit Guide For thousands of years, men have tried to understand the Rules when dealing with women. Finally, this merit/demerit guide will help you to understand just how it works. Remember, in the world of romance, one single rule applies: Make the woman happy. Do something she likes, and you get points. Do something she dislikes and points are deducted. You don't get any points for doing something she expects. Sorry, that's the way the game is played. Here is a guide to the points system: SIMPLE DUTIES You make the bed.+1 You make the bed, but forget to add the decorative pillows.0 You throw the bedspread over rumpled sheets.-1 You leave the toilet seat up.-5 You replace the toilet paper roll when it is empty..0 When the toilet paper roll is barren, you resort to Kleenex.-1 When the Kleenex runs out you use the next bathroom.-2 You go out to buy her extra-light panty liners with wings..+5 In the snow .+8 But return with beer.-5 And no liners.-25 You check out a suspicious noise at night.0 You check out a suspicious noise and it is nothing.0 You check out a suspicious noise and it is something.+5 You pummel it with a six iron.+10 It's her cat.-40 AT THE PARTY You stay by her side the entire party.0 You stay by her side for a while, then leave to chat with a College drinking buddy.-2 Named Tiffany.-4 Tiffany is a dancer.-10 With breast implants.-18 HER BIRTHDAY You remember her birthday.0 You buy a card and flowers.0 You take her out to dinner.0 You take her out to dinner and it's not a sports bar.+1 Okay, it is a sports bar.-2 And it's all-you-can-eat night.-3 It's a sports bar, its all-you-can-eat night, and your face is painted the colors of your favorite team.-10 A NIGHT OUT WITH THE BOYS Go with a pal.0 The pal is happily married.+1 The pal is single.-7 He drives a Ferrari.-10 With a personalized license plate (GR8NBED).-15 A NIGHT OUT WITH HER You take her to a movie.+2 You take her to a movie she likes.+4 You take her to a movie you hate.+6 You take her to a movie you like.-2 It's called Death Cop III.-3 Which features Cyborgs that eat humans.-9 You lied and said it was a foreign film about orphans.-15 YOUR PHYSIQUE You develop a noticeable pot belly.-15 You develop a noticeable pot belly exercise to get rid of it.+10 You develop a noticeable pot belly and resort to loose jeans and baggy Hawaiian shirts.-30 You say, It doesn't matter, you have one too..-800 THE BIG QUESTION She asks, Does this dress make me look fat? You hesitate in responding.-10 You reply, Where?.-35 You reply, No, I think it's your ass.-100 Any other response.-20 COMMUNICATION When she wants to talk about a problem: You listen, displaying a concerned expression.0 You listen, for over 30 minutes.+5 You relate to her problem and share a similar experience..+50 You're mind wanders to sports and you suddenly hear her saying well, what do you think I should do?.-100 You have fallen asleep.-200 IT'S THAT TIME OF THE MONTH You talk.-100 You don't talk.-150 You spend time with her..-200 You don't spend time with her.-500 You seem to be enjoying yourself.-1000 Game Over - YOU LOSE!!! -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. Just shows to go ya. Jon Larry Jackson wrote: Jon Spencer: I use Dr. Pepper. ___ Dr. Pepper is out of network for me. And that's the trouble with POSs and HMOs and WOWs, etc. The help line gives a different answer everytime I call. [grin] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
Satan apparently has done a job on you. Don't you believe Christ? He said that if you have repented, He has forgotten your sins. What a waste for Him to forget them and for you not to? Otherwise, why did He go through the Atonement for you (and me)? Jut a kindly and humbly administered slap to shake you out of it! Jon - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder I sometimes feel that I have too many regrets about past misdeeds to be able to enter the celestial kingdom even when I have repented of them. Stacy. At 12:31 AM 11/18/2002 +, you wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: --- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? --- We can experience genuine spiritual manifestations that are a result of the power and direct influence of God. Many make misguided efforts to attain an elevated level of spiritual sensitivity by counterfeit methods. But according to the teachings of prophets and leaders of the Church, our level of spiritual communion with Heavenly Father depends upon personal righteousness, and observance of the laws of the Gospel. --- Mij Ebaboc /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder
I believe Christ. I may not always believe in the efficacy of my own repentance or that I have done enough to satisfy good repentance. Stacy. At 06:34 PM 11/19/2002 -0500, you wrote: Satan apparently has done a job on you. Don't you believe Christ? He said that if you have repented, He has forgotten your sins. What a waste for Him to forget them and for you not to? Otherwise, why did He go through the Atonement for you (and me)? Jut a kindly and humbly administered slap to shake you out of it! Jon - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder I sometimes feel that I have too many regrets about past misdeeds to be able to enter the celestial kingdom even when I have repented of them. Stacy. At 12:31 AM 11/18/2002 +, you wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: --- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? --- We can experience genuine spiritual manifestations that are a result of the power and direct influence of God. Many make misguided efforts to attain an elevated level of spiritual sensitivity by counterfeit methods. But according to the teachings of prophets and leaders of the Church, our level of spiritual communion with Heavenly Father depends upon personal righteousness, and observance of the laws of the Gospel. --- Mij Ebaboc /// /// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] In the World
Here are a few uses of the statement: Church members today are not a geographically or politically separate people; we are mingled among the people of the worldand for the Lord's purposes. So the prophetic counsel given is often to be individually applied, but it still requires the same obedience. Being in the world but not of it makes our having the Spirit even more vital. Life in ancient Israel was life in a complete community of believers. Having the Spirit was vital then, but it is equally essential when we are among so many disbelieverslike Jonah in Nineveh. (All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience, Neal Maxwell, pg 103). This question of being in the world but not of it, is a question of increasing concernbecause, in effect, the world is ever shrinking in sizeand we come ever closer to the influence and attitudes of othersand there is ever more compelling pressures to be as others are, to do as others do, with questions of compromise and of preserving principleshow far to go, how different to be, how to live comfortably among men. One of life's most important problems is learning to get along with the people with whom we live in the world, without compromising principles, and one of the plausible ways of getting along with people is to make concessions pertaining to principleto go the way of the world, whatever way that is, which no one really knows, because the worl has so many different ways. It is quite impossible to do everything everyone else wants us to do or to please all people, because everyone else wants us to do something different, and abandoning principles is no solution to the problem of getting along with people. (Pres McKay, General Conference, April 1959). Then there is Elder Eyring, quoting C.S. Lewis: I would prefer to be entirely original on this topic, but for me the necessary starting point on consecrating our learning is an essay by C. S. Lewis I first read many years ago entitled Learning in War-Time. It is probably not academically correct in this setting to summarize someone else's work, but I would like to do just that in part tonight for reasons which will surely become obvious. The essay is actually a talk Lewis gave to students at Oxford in 1939, at the start of World War II. He addressed the question how students could proceed with a collegiate education when a great war for freedom was being fought in Europe. Lewis approached the question by looking at the analogous challenge for the Christian to be in the world but not of it: -[The Christian] must ask himself how it is right, or even psychologically possible, for creatures who are every moment advancing either to Heaven or to hell to spend any fraction of the little time allowed them in this world on such comparative trivialities as literature or art, mathematics or biology. (C. S. Lewis, Learning in War-Time, in The Weight of Glory and Other Addresses [New York: Macmillan, 1965], p. 21). Lewis goes on to explain that wartime is in one sense not extraordinary because life is never ordinary; women and men have always had to go on about the tasks of daily life while events or compelling causes swirl around them. Lewis observed about his own life: -Before I became a Christian I do not think I fully realized that one's life, after conversion, would inevitably consist in doing most of the same things one had been doing before, one hopes, in a new spirit, but still the same things (p. 23). Lewis rejects the notion that the daily activities of life can be shelved in favor of great causes: -If you attempted . . . to suspend your whole intellectual and aesthetic activity, you would only succeed in substituting a worse cultural life for a better. You are not, in fact, going to read nothing, either in the church or in the line; if you don't read good books, you will read bad ones. If you don't go on thinking rationally, you will think irrationally. If you reject aesthetic satisfactions, you will fall into sensual satisfactions. (Pp. 23-24.) Lewis then describes the essence of consecration: - All our merely natural activities will be accepted, if they are offered to God, even the humblest, and all of them, even the noblest, will be sinful if they are not. Christianity does not simply replace our natural life and substitute a new one; it is rather a new organization which exploits, to its own supernatural ends, these natural materials. . . . I reject at once an idea which lingers in the mind of some modern people that cultural activities are in their own right spiritual and meritorious-as though scholars and poets were intrinsically more pleasing to God than scavengers and bootblacks. . . . The work of a Beethoven and the work of a charwoman becomes spiritual on precisely the same condition, that of being offered to God, of being done humbly as to the Lord. (Pp. 25-26.) Having described consecration generally, Lewis warned of a special danger for the intellectual: -The intellectual life is not the only road to
[ZION] Does America need to be destroyed
Revelation mentions a world government, or rather a group of nations that act as one. It is affectionately referred to as the Beast. Those who will not worship the Beast and have its number engraved on their hand/head, will not be able to buy/sell (economic pressure). this would fit in well with the ten toes that Daniel sees as the last world kingdom to appear prior to the coming of Christ. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe But when I look at the book of Daniel, it seems to me I remember that a world empire wasn't to be established again until Jesus comes. Stacy. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Leonid alert
Unfortunately, we have overcast skies, so we didn't see it in Alabama. I would figure our local astronomer was probably trying to squint through the clouds passing over Montevallo. Eh, Ronn? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] In the World
You know, I really like a lot of what Nibley says. However, he more often points out the questions, without fleshing out the answers. He tells us he has chosen consecration. Yet, he doesn't mention how he implements it. Was he living consecration when he held off being married until he was in his forties? Does moving out of the neighborhood mean moving to Provo? Does he just turn over his retirement checks to his bishop in fast offerings? I would personally prefer to live in Zion, not the world. However, until the rest of you get your act together and join me there, I'm forced to dwell somewhere. ;-) As it is, I think that Nibley is reading the phrase differently than our LDS leaders do, or at least is taking it from a different angle. He wants Zion built, and for all of us to move out of Babylon into Zion. Until that happens, our leaders realize we are going to dwell in small groups among the Gentiles of the world. Our leaders see this as a good thing, in that it allows us to promote the gospel, spreading it forth. There was a time when Joseph and Brigham called the saints to gather out from the world. That will occur again, I believe. But for now, our command is to dwell amongst others, in the hopes we can lift them up, convert some, and learn to live righteously in a wicked world. However, I do believe with Nibley, that many saints have forsaken their vows of consecration for a worldly comfort. How else can you explain the cheap labor rates and high house costs in Utah? Both suggest greed. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Nibley:The Lord has repeatedly commanded and forced his people to flee out of the world into the wilderness, quite literally; there is only one way to avoid becoming involved in the neighborhood brawls, and that is to move out of the neighborhood. There is nothing in the Constitution that forbids me doing certain things I have covenanted and promised to do; if the neighbors don't like it, they have no legal grounds against me, but there are ways of getting me to move; the tribulation. . . shall descend upon you, said the Lord, but do things my way and my providence will see you through (DC 78:14). This inescapable conflict is part of our human heritage, as we learn from dramatic passages of scripture. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] In the World
But it is possible. We may be sinners now, but the Lord has shown us that we can become perfected through Him. There are perfect men living on the earth right now. At one point, they were sinners and required the atonement of Christ to atone for those sins. Since then, they have achieved a level of righteousness wherein they, of themselves, stand approved before God. They do live in the world without partaking of the sins of the world. I believe President Benson was one of them, which is why he knew what he was speaking of. For those of us not quite to that point, we must move line upon line, precept by precept to that level of obedience. As we repent, Christ perfects us to new and higher levels of perfection, until we also can be among those who do not partake of the sins of the world. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe It is possible to live in the world and not partake of the sins of the world. Ezra Taft Benson--Apr 1991 First Presidency Message Keys to Successful Member-Missionary Work No. It is not possible for any of us. We are all sinners. Paul O Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
I think the Lord gave it, not necessarily to help us with our health, though it definitely does, but because of what the first few verses of DC 89 tell us concerning the secret works of evil men in our day. It was to prevent our people from getting used and abused by the enemies of the Church. Secondly, it originally was not given as a commandment, but as guidance. Only in the 1850s, did Brigham Young make it a binding commandment. Still, though the modern prophets do not specifically mention caffeine, they have unofficially added to the WoW any dangerous drugs, and even abused prescribed medications. While we have the binding part specifically laid out for us in the commandment, we can find new areas and advice given us that is not officially binding. It is up to us to get to the point where we can use wisdom in both areas. For example, we concentrate so much on the thou shalt nots in the WoW, we often ignore the things we are encouraged to do: eat grains, fruits and vegetables. Use meat sparingly, particularly in times of hunger and winter, etc. I know of many saints that are at least a little overweight due to over eating (I'm about 20 pounds overweight), and in many ways we need to consider changing our ways, perhaps even repenting. So, just because it hasn't been made a commandment, doesn't mean we need to have a specific commandment. We aren't to be commanded in all things. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: He could have also told the early Saints to boil their drinking water they got from the Mississippi, which would have prevented a cholera epidemic Nauvoo suffered through at one point, iirc. But he didn't. I'm with JWR on this -- it's only superficially about health. Put another way, health becomes a kind of type for spirituality. It's a law of obedience and helps set us apart as a spiritual community, as Zion. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Pamela Lee Anderson, a different sort of poster girl now
It depends. Were you referring to the PLA from Home Improvement era, Baywatch timeframe, or the Tommy Lee freaknik period? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe I'm quite sure that the mere mention of Pamela Lee Anderson violates several elements of the charter. Which means I'll probably get booted now. Stephen Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Jon, It appears that the generally accepted definition of hot drinks may have been fairly broad for a period of time. A quote from Widtsoe's 1937 book on the Word of Wisdom-- Caffeine, the essential principle of tea and coffee, was discovered, as a chemical substance, a few years before the Word of Wisdom was received. This knowledge was, however, buried in scientific publications. It is very unlikely that the Prophet Joseph Smith had heard of it. It was many years after 1833 that the physiological effect of caffeine was established by science. In the days of Joseph Smith, tea and coffee did not come in for the disfavor shown by some towards alcohol and tobacco. Indeed, people were often advised to use tea and coffee as a means of conquering the liquor habit. That the expression hot drinks was used in the Word of Wisdom rather than coffee and tea, is notable; for by so doing a host of other injurious habit-forming beverages now used (or that may be used) become subject to the Word of Wisdom. ( John A. Widtsoe and Leah D. Widtsoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937], 99.) I see several other quotes from Church authorities during the mid-nineteen-hundreds that contain similar language with reference to caffeine-containing beverages. As far as I can recall, it was never interpreted thus during my lifetime. Apparently the revision to more narrowly focus the Word of Wisdom came about some time after the 1940's. It would also seem more significant, I suppose, if we knew specifically what the requirements for a temple recommend were based on. Again, my experience over the last thirty years is that the temple recommend interview only focused specifically on tea and coffee as hot drinks. No bishop has ever questioned me about using caffeine. --- Mij Ebaboc Jon Spencer wrote: --- We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
