RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Stacy Smith
Thanks. Stacy. At 07:49 PM 11/07/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy them. This one sounds interesting. / ///

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy them. This one sounds interesting. Here is a listing of the titles available at the Harold B. Lee library at BYU: Robinson, S. E. (1982). The Testament of Adam : an examinatio

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Stacy Smith
Do we have any of these in immediate electronic form I could look at on a web site? Stacy. At 08:35 PM 11/07/2002 -0700, you wrote: Jim Cobabe wrote: > Stacy Smith wrote: > --- > I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy > them. This one sounds interesting. > --- >

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jim Cobabe wrote: > Stacy Smith wrote: > --- > I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy > them. This one sounds interesting. > --- > > Robinson has written three books that are included on my GospeLink > collection. > > ARE MORMONS CHRISTIANS? > by Stephen E. Robinson

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Try a search at www.deseretbook.com -- that should work. Stacy Smith wrote: > I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy > them. This one sounds interesting. > > Stacy. > > At 09:45 PM 11/07/2002 +, you wrote: > > >This discussion by Stephen Robinson applies with equ

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
Stacy Smith wrote: --- I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy them. This one sounds interesting. --- Robinson has written three books that are included on my GospeLink collection. ARE MORMONS CHRISTIANS? by Stephen E. Robinson Bookcraft Salt Lake City, Utah 1991

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Stacy Smith
I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy them. This one sounds interesting. Stacy. At 09:45 PM 11/07/2002 +, you wrote: This discussion by Stephen Robinson applies with equal validity to questions about the historical accuracy of the Bible... Naturalistic expla

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: The two covenants: The first is the old covenant, the law of Moses, the law of carnal commandments, the preparatory gospel, the covenant God made with Israel, through Moses, to prepare them for the second. The second is the new covenant,

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This is a very interesting comment,a nd sheds a lot of light on the subject at hand. We often try to read in our own modern, secular ideas of what *we* want the truth to be, rather than letting the record speak for itself, and we're often inconsistent. I have on my website a transcript of a talk by

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
This discussion by Stephen Robinson applies with equal validity to questions about the historical accuracy of the Bible... Naturalistic explanations are often useful in evaluating empirical data, but when the question asked involves non-empirical categories, such as "Is the Book of Mormon what

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 09:39 AM 11/7/2002, Jim cogently stated: Seems to me that the contention in this discussion is mostly based on semantic quibbling. We're talking about written records of history. Every incident and story related in these records is entirely symbolic. The words and letters that comprise a wr

RE: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
Seems to me that the contention in this discussion is mostly based on semantic quibbling. We're talking about written records of history. Every incident and story related in these records is entirely symbolic. The words and letters that comprise a written text or an oral narrative are symbol

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I appreciate your experience. Just don't think it's such a black and white issue. We've been told in a number of places in the scriptures that we don't know everything yet, and may have to exercise patience. In the meantime, we are free to compare speculations, so long as we do not harm the faith o

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-07 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > John, > The difference is that we have many GAs who have told us that portions of > the Bible ARE symbolic. That leaves the Bible's historicity at least > partially in question. Meanwhile, they have all told us that the BoM is > literal.

Re: [ZION] Bible vs the Scientists

2002-11-06 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Gary Smith wrote: > John, > The difference is that we have many GAs who have told us that portions of > the Bible ARE symbolic. That leaves the Bible's historicity at least > partially in question. Meanwhile, they have all told us that the BoM is > literal. Signaturi don't want to believe that

Re: [ZION] Bible vs. the Scientists

2002-11-06 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Dan, put another way, the difference between us and Biblicists is that they believe the Bible to *be* the word of God in an existential, substantive, "an und für sich" (in and of itself) sense, whereas we believe it is a *record* of the word of God, to be preached from, and interpreted by prophets.

Re: [ZION] Bible vs. the Scientists

2002-11-06 Thread Dan R Allen
John: For some reason this line of argument reminds me of those who deny the historicity of the Book of Mormon: --- The Book of Mormon doesn't have to be literally a record of ancient America as long as the principles that it teaches are true. There probably weren't any Nephites and Lamanite

Re: [ZION] Bible vs. the Scientists

2002-11-06 Thread Marc A. Schindler
"John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > >This is a misrepresentation. Those who deny the historicity of the Book of > >Mormon > >deny that it was the record of an ancient people, but rather that it was a > >result > >of Joseph Smith's creativity. Thi

Re: [ZION] Bible vs. the Scientists

2002-11-05 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: This is a misrepresentation. Those who deny the historicity of the Book of Mormon deny that it was the record of an ancient people, but rather that it was a result of Joseph Smith's creativity. This is a lot different from realizing that t

Re: [ZION] Bible vs. the Scientists

2002-11-05 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This is a misrepresentation. Those who deny the historicity of the Book of Mormon deny that it was the record of an ancient people, but rather that it was a result of Joseph Smith's creativity. This is a lot different from realizing that the scriptures are written in multiple layers, and that to re