Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty here, and has been since 1970 or so. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a progressive (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is Toryism, and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called Intolerable Acts? Steven Montgomery wrote: At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty here, and has been since 1970 or so. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a progressive (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 12:26 PM 11/10/02, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is Toryism, and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called Intolerable Acts? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Spam Street Mimes Blow-In Cards --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
24th Amendment The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only intolerable because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is Toryism, and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called Intolerable Acts? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765 This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include occupied buildings. Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774: This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages from the Boston Tea Party were paid for. Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in the colonies. Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control out of the hands of the colonialists. Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I understand that. I was talking about the *British* imposing a poll tax on the colonies. I admit I'm only going from memory -- I just thought that was one of the intolerable acts. In any case, that Thatcher did this puts her in clear violation of the US constitutional principles she claims to have admired so much, and that's my actual point. Jim Cobabe wrote: 24th Amendment The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Too true, but there really were overlapping and conflicting claims, even amongst the 13 colonies, let alone the rest of British North America (remember that there weren't just 13 colonies -- it's just that you learn about those specifically because they're later what became the USA). But I seem to remember border disputes between New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland, Virginia, etc. And the Oregon Territory was a real mess of conflicting treaties and uncertainties. Take Maine as an example. The reason it juts way up into Canada is that the treaty that set its boundaries has as a key element a measurement of what's the highest point in a certain area. Later surveys, after the border was fixed, showed that the border should have been way to the south (and I mean like about 100 kms), but you can't unscramble omelets. That's what made the border run right through the centre of some towns. There's one on the Quebec-Vermont border, iirc, where there's a pool hall/tavern right on the border, and they've painted a yellow line through the pub to show the border. It runs right across the pool table! (8 ball in the American SW pocket...) John W. Redelfs wrote: After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only intolerable because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy. Might makes right. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Jon Spencer wrote: You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still bugbears under your bed, it seems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, Independent American Party, etc. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Indeed. This is also what seems to have happened in Turkey with the recent election, incidentally. A party with Islamist roots appears to have a much more pragmatic platform (in any case, Turkey's constitution declares the secular nature of the country, and the military have traditionally reined in any outlyers). Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Jim- Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress [...] It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the new Democrat organization. -John- [Steven] Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. -Steven- I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right. My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they eventually stop looking quite so wacky. A monster of so frightful mien and all that. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed. Jon - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil... Jon Spencer wrote: You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still bugbears under your bed, it seems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Yeah, yeah, okay, so we're playing around. But my serious point is that it's going to be very difficult for Respublicans to blame anybody else if they screw up from here on in. Jon Spencer wrote: Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed. Jon - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil... Jon Spencer wrote: You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still bugbears under your bed, it seems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the point the first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly criticize the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against there in Utah. Steven Montgomery wrote: Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, Independent American Party, etc. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active in the Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained why, and what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, in his famous interview with the Trib. Steven Montgomery wrote: I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the point the first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly criticize the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against there in Utah. Steven Montgomery wrote: Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, Independent American Party, etc. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 08:17 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: --- I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. --- It appears to me that partisan affiliation is largely irrelevant, at least at the national level. Both major national parties promote platform issues that are morally unacceptable, insupportable, and insufferable, to any person still gifted with the light of Christ. In fact, in the deepest darkest depths of these organizations lurk evils so horrifyingly abominable that it amazes me to see apparently otherwise decent people so associate themselves. They are truly Gadianton Bands, fulfilling every item on the checklist of devilish evil and depravity. Beneath the centrist mask, many of the principal policy makers openly espouse ideals that would compromise the very social and political foundations of the world. If such fundamentally evil people ever come to power unopposed and free to act, it will be a day of great calamity. This far, in this modern age, we have been fortunate that these forces must continually compromise their true inclinations to disguise the real evil they intend. --- Mij Ebaboc I pretty much agree with your assessment. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Actually I've pondered the possibility of running as a democrat in the next State House election. The incumbent who just got reelected ran unopposed, there was no challenger from the Democratic Party. -- Steven Montgomery At 08:18 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active in the Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained why, and what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, in his famous interview with the Trib. Steven Montgomery wrote: I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the point the first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly criticize the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against there in Utah. Steven Montgomery wrote: Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, Independent American Party, etc. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /// // -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
It is further obvious to me that some onlookers to the political scene lack the discernment to note that good and honest people cannot in good conscience affiliate, without serious reservations, with either of the major political groups in this country. I have every confidence that noted Church leaders who associate with the Democratic Party do not wish to have it understood that they support or promote evil practices or policies that contradict the spirit or letter of the law of the Gospel. Church members owe their allegience first and foremost to God, then to love their neighbors. Loyalty to partisan political ideals is properly somewhere far down the list of priority. In my experience it is common to find social mormons with a misplaced sense of loyalty to such matters. They identify more strongly with sociopolitical ideology than with their faith in Christ. --- Mij Ebaboc / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
If I were you, I'd be more worried about what might happen if Administration policies fail. There's no Democratic Congress to blame anymore. Jim Cobabe wrote: Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon the sinking ship. Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism. Near as I can tell, she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas. In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in US politics. It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the new Democrat organization. Then they can vent their angst over irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters. --- Mij Ebaboc / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
