Re: [zones-discuss] Zones and 3D applications
After speaking with Amir it became clear that the desire is to run one or more applications (X *clients*) in zones, and run the X server in the global zone. All of this would be running on a developer's desktop computer. This simplifies many things. Edward Pilatowicz wrote: hey amir, It is possible (although probably not really supported) to run an X server that directly access hardware devices (ie, graphics card, keyboard, mouse, etc) in a zone. But it wouldn't work to have multiple zones trying to access the same hardware at the same time. But it should be possible to run multiple OpenGL based 3d applications in seperate zones while having the X server run in the global zone. This can be acomplished via ssh X tunneling. i've actually done this with 3D applications and had very good results. the applications can access the X opengl 3d extensions via the ssh X tunnel and render 3d images without a problem (assuming of course that the hardware in the global zone supports 3d opengl acceleration). ed On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 03:12:11PM +0200, Amir Javanshir wrote: Hi all, One of our partners who develops a PLM software (using OpenGL and 3D accelerator cards), asked me a couple of tricky questions concerning Solaris zones. First of all, we agree that Solaris zones (by extension the containers) are really useful on the server side, for consolidation means. However does it really make sense to use zones on a graphical workstation ? What benefit would there be there ? (The only one I can see is to have two different versions of a software on the same workstation) Now the tricky questions: * In case of the sparse root zone many libraries are shared between all the zones. What about the X11 libraries, colormap, pixmap ans so on ? * And in Whole Root Zones, do we get a different X server for each zone ? * Finally, lets say each zone has it's own X server, how can dirrerent zones deal with the 3D graphic card on the workstation (the XVR 2500 card for example) ? Putting it in other words, zones allow application to run in protected environments, knowing nothing of other zones, each one acting as if they are alones on the hardware. Can we guaranty this behavior also for 3D graphical applications (two zones running seamlessly different 3D applications, sharing the 3D card) Any help would be appreciated Regards Amir -- -- Jeff VICTOR Sun Microsystemsjeff.victor @ sun.com OS AmbassadorSr. Technical Specialist Solaris 10 Zones FAQ:http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/faq -- ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] Zones and 3D applications
Hi all, One of our partners who develops a PLM software (using OpenGL and 3D accelerator cards), asked me a couple of tricky questions concerning Solaris zones. First of all, we agree that Solaris zones (by extension the containers) are really useful on the server side, for consolidation means. However does it really make sense to use zones on a graphical workstation ? What benefit would there be there ? (The only one I can see is to have two different versions of a software on the same workstation) Now the tricky questions: * In case of the sparse root zone many libraries are shared between all the zones. What about the X11 libraries, colormap, pixmap ans so on ? * And in Whole Root Zones, do we get a different X server for each zone ? * Finally, lets say each zone has it's own X server, how can dirrerent zones deal with the 3D graphic card on the workstation (the XVR 2500 card for example) ? Putting it in other words, zones allow application to run in protected environments, knowing nothing of other zones, each one acting as if they are alones on the hardware. Can we guaranty this behavior also for 3D graphical applications (two zones running seamlessly different 3D applications, sharing the 3D card) Any help would be appreciated Regards Amir ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Zones and 3D applications
Amir Javanshir writes: First of all, we agree that Solaris zones (by extension the containers) are really useful on the server side, for consolidation means. However does it really make sense to use zones on a graphical workstation ? What benefit would there be there ? (The only one I can see is to have two different versions of a software on the same workstation) It also provides the opportunity to run servers in those other zones -- isolated from the local workstation usage -- and perhaps allow for certain kinds of software testing. * In case of the sparse root zone many libraries are shared between all the zones. What about the X11 libraries, colormap, pixmap ans so on ? Yes. Everything under /lib, /platform, /usr, and /sbin. * And in Whole Root Zones, do we get a different X server for each zone ? You may. The hard part, though, will be with the devices and permissions required inside the non-global zone. * Finally, lets say each zone has it's own X server, how can dirrerent zones deal with the 3D graphic card on the workstation (the XVR 2500 card for example) ? I think you'll need to ask the folks who support those cards what provisions they've made for non-global zone operation. My guess would be that it's impossible to run any of those cards in a non-global zone, because it requires permissions that exceed what non-global zones may have. Just a guess, though, and it depends on the individual products, not on the Zones feature itself. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Zones and 3D applications
It is not practical for each zone to have its own X server. The X server runs in the global zone, and can be accessed from non-global zones. You can also run Xnest in a non-global zone, but the actual keyboard/mouse/display are still under the control of the global zone. When Trusted Extensions is enabled, the global zone X server isolates the clients connected from different zones so that they cannot interfere or interact with each other. For example cut and paste between zones in not allowed by default. OpenGL and 3D operations will work if they don't require that the client has access to the hardware. Trusted Extensions also supports Sun Ray software with zones. All the X servers (per DTU) run in the global zone, but the window manager (CDE) or panel manager (JDS) has been extended to understand zones and associate workspaces with zones. --Glenn Amir Javanshir wrote: Hi all, One of our partners who develops a PLM software (using OpenGL and 3D accelerator cards), asked me a couple of tricky questions concerning Solaris zones. First of all, we agree that Solaris zones (by extension the containers) are really useful on the server side, for consolidation means. However does it really make sense to use zones on a graphical workstation ? What benefit would there be there ? (The only one I can see is to have two different versions of a software on the same workstation) Now the tricky questions: * In case of the sparse root zone many libraries are shared between all the zones. What about the X11 libraries, colormap, pixmap ans so on ? * And in Whole Root Zones, do we get a different X server for each zone ? * Finally, lets say each zone has it's own X server, how can dirrerent zones deal with the 3D graphic card on the workstation (the XVR 2500 card for example) ? Putting it in other words, zones allow application to run in protected environments, knowing nothing of other zones, each one acting as if they are alones on the hardware. Can we guaranty this behavior also for 3D graphical applications (two zones running seamlessly different 3D applications, sharing the 3D card) Any help would be appreciated Regards Amir ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Zones and 3D applications
hey amir, It is possible (although probably not really supported) to run an X server that directly access hardware devices (ie, graphics card, keyboard, mouse, etc) in a zone. But it wouldn't work to have multiple zones trying to access the same hardware at the same time. But it should be possible to run multiple OpenGL based 3d applications in seperate zones while having the X server run in the global zone. This can be acomplished via ssh X tunneling. i've actually done this with 3D applications and had very good results. the applications can access the X opengl 3d extensions via the ssh X tunnel and render 3d images without a problem (assuming of course that the hardware in the global zone supports 3d opengl acceleration). ed On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 03:12:11PM +0200, Amir Javanshir wrote: Hi all, One of our partners who develops a PLM software (using OpenGL and 3D accelerator cards), asked me a couple of tricky questions concerning Solaris zones. First of all, we agree that Solaris zones (by extension the containers) are really useful on the server side, for consolidation means. However does it really make sense to use zones on a graphical workstation ? What benefit would there be there ? (The only one I can see is to have two different versions of a software on the same workstation) Now the tricky questions: * In case of the sparse root zone many libraries are shared between all the zones. What about the X11 libraries, colormap, pixmap ans so on ? * And in Whole Root Zones, do we get a different X server for each zone ? * Finally, lets say each zone has it's own X server, how can dirrerent zones deal with the 3D graphic card on the workstation (the XVR 2500 card for example) ? Putting it in other words, zones allow application to run in protected environments, knowing nothing of other zones, each one acting as if they are alones on the hardware. Can we guaranty this behavior also for 3D graphical applications (two zones running seamlessly different 3D applications, sharing the 3D card) Any help would be appreciated Regards Amir ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
