Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-25 Thread Hiram Chirino
Have you guys setup a zookeeper-private list for the zookeeper ppmc +
hadoop pmc to have private discussions?
If not, I highly recommend it since it would be the only practical
viecel for the ppmc to nominate new commiters or raise sensitive
issues the the pmc.

Regards,
HIram

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ok good...  as long as the PMC folks are participating it should not
 be a problem.

 Regards,
 Hiram

 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Doug Cutting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hiram Chirino wrote:

 looks like you guys are not in the PMC.  Sorry about that.  But it
 bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe..  usually
 an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
 authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
 properly self govern.  It makes things like doing releases, adding new
 committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
 not actively working on the project.

 PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project.  I don't moderate
 this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are not also
 following it.  We hope to eventually promote some of Zookeeper's committers
 to the Hadoop PMC.  All seasoned committers should be on the PMC, but the
 Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies at Apache and none have made it
 there yet.

 To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper.  Zookeeper's
 committers are like the PPMC.  If things go well, as with all Hadoop
 committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC.  There'll be no formal
 graduation, just gradual maturation.  If the community diverges sufficiently
 from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote Zookeeper to a TLP.

 Doug




 --
 Regards,
 Hiram

 Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

 Open Source SOA
 http://open.iona.com




-- 
Regards,
Hiram

Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Patrick Hunt

Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
(please update this if your company is using...)

So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) 
and just a few contributors.


There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted 
Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it 
looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)

http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html

A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they 
are using or looking at ZK.


Patrick

Hiram Chirino wrote:

How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
associations do they have?



Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Hiram Chirino
So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
 http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
 (please update this if your company is using...)

 So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
 just a few contributors.

 There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
 Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
 looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
 http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html

 A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
 using or looking at ZK.

 Patrick

 Hiram Chirino wrote:

 How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
 associations do they have?





-- 
Regards,
Hiram

Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Patrick Hunt

Yes, it's documented on the web site:
http://hadoop.apache.org/zookeeper/credits.html

Patrick

Hiram Chirino wrote:

So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
(please update this if your company is using...)

So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
just a few contributors.

There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html

A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
using or looking at ZK.

Patrick

Hiram Chirino wrote:

How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
associations do they have?







Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Hiram Chirino
Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing.  Also
how did you guys bypass the incubator?

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes they are!

 mahadev


 On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?

 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
 http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
 (please update this if your company is using...)

 So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
 just a few contributors.

 There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
 Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
 looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
 http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html

 A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
 using or looking at ZK.

 Patrick

 Hiram Chirino wrote:

 How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
 associations do they have?









-- 
Regards,
Hiram

Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Doug Cutting

Hiram Chirino wrote:

Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing.


Indeed.


Also how did you guys bypass the incubator?


The IP title was clear (entirely covered by a software grant from Y!) 
and the Hadoop PMC was willing to guide the project.


Doug


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Mahadev Konar
We are fully aware of that Hiram. We are still a sub project of Hadoop and
have been on sourceforge for a while. For being a sub project the Hadoop PMC
needs to vote for it. Zookeeper is in the future roadmap of Hadoop for High
Availability/ configuration management and mounting of different
filesystems. 
So that's why were able to get in as a subproject of Hadoop.
We are trying to build a community of diverse committers and developers and
its just the start :).

Hope you guys can help :).

Mahadev


On 7/23/08 11:54 AM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing.  Also
 how did you guys bypass the incubator?
 
 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes they are!
 
 mahadev
 
 
 On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
 
 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
 http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
 (please update this if your company is using...)
 
 So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
 just a few contributors.
 
 There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
 Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
 looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
 http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
 
 A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
 using or looking at ZK.
 
 Patrick
 
 Hiram Chirino wrote:
 
 How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
 associations do they have?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Hiram Chirino
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Mahadev Konar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We are fully aware of that Hiram. We are still a sub project of Hadoop and
 have been on sourceforge for a while. For being a sub project the Hadoop PMC
 needs to vote for it. Zookeeper is in the future roadmap of Hadoop for High
 Availability/ configuration management and mounting of different
 filesystems.
 So that's why were able to get in as a subproject of Hadoop.

Yeah.. wish it would have been that easy when we tried to being in
ActiveMQ from Codehaus as sub-project of Geronimo since it was THE JMS
implementation shipping with Geronimo.  I guess the big difference was
you guys did a code grant, while the ActiveMQ stuff had to have it's
ip checked.

Count your blessings.  The incubator is really a horrible speed bump
to go through.

 We are trying to build a community of diverse committers and developers and
 its just the start :).


Awesome

 Hope you guys can help :).


Yep!  You guys have a very interesting project and hard to keep my hands off it.

Are all you guys also PMC members on Hadoop?

 Mahadev


 On 7/23/08 11:54 AM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing.  Also
 how did you guys bypass the incubator?

 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes they are!

 mahadev


 On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, Hiram Chirino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?

 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
 http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
 (please update this if your company is using...)

 So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
 just a few contributors.

 There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
 Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
 looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
 http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html

 A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they 
 are
 using or looking at ZK.

 Patrick

 Hiram Chirino wrote:

 How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
 associations do they have?













-- 
Regards,
Hiram

Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Hiram Chirino

 Are all you guys also PMC members on Hadoop?


Never mind.. I just looked it up in the asf-authorization file.

hadoop-zookeeper=akornev,breed,fpj,mahadev,phunt
hadoop-pmc=ab,cutting,dhruba,enis,jimk,nigel,omalley,stack,taton,tomwhite

looks like you guys are not in the PMC.  Sorry about that.  But it
bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe..  usually
an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
properly self govern.  It makes things like doing releases, adding new
committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
not actively working on the project.

Is this being addressed?


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Doug Cutting

Hiram Chirino wrote:

looks like you guys are not in the PMC.  Sorry about that.  But it
bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe..  usually
an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
properly self govern.  It makes things like doing releases, adding new
committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
not actively working on the project.


PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project.  I don't 
moderate this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are 
not also following it.  We hope to eventually promote some of 
Zookeeper's committers to the Hadoop PMC.  All seasoned committers 
should be on the PMC, but the Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies 
at Apache and none have made it there yet.


To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper.  Zookeeper's 
committers are like the PPMC.  If things go well, as with all Hadoop 
committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC.  There'll be no formal 
graduation, just gradual maturation.  If the community diverges 
sufficiently from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote 
Zookeeper to a TLP.


Doug


Re: ZooKeeper community

2008-07-23 Thread Hiram Chirino
Ok good...  as long as the PMC folks are participating it should not
be a problem.

Regards,
Hiram

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Doug Cutting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hiram Chirino wrote:

 looks like you guys are not in the PMC.  Sorry about that.  But it
 bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe..  usually
 an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
 authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
 properly self govern.  It makes things like doing releases, adding new
 committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
 not actively working on the project.

 PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project.  I don't moderate
 this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are not also
 following it.  We hope to eventually promote some of Zookeeper's committers
 to the Hadoop PMC.  All seasoned committers should be on the PMC, but the
 Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies at Apache and none have made it
 there yet.

 To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper.  Zookeeper's
 committers are like the PPMC.  If things go well, as with all Hadoop
 committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC.  There'll be no formal
 graduation, just gradual maturation.  If the community diverges sufficiently
 from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote Zookeeper to a TLP.

 Doug




-- 
Regards,
Hiram

Blog: http://hiramchirino.com

Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com