Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
At 12:47 AM 4/5/02 -0500, you wrote: I've spent more time making the Python docs work in NS4 than making them look good in more modern browsers This is sad but true. I still have Netscape 4 here for testing as well. (I run into the same problem with other web technologies, like Macromedia Flash. Yes, probably 97% of browsers do have a Flash player installed, but what version? Many are still at Version 3.) Those "Download FREE upgrade" buttons may as well be invisible. I don't think we should let Zope3 look ugly on old browsers, but isn't it acceptable for it to look more modest? With careful use of CSS, it is possible to let the older browsers "fail gracefully". And it is amazing what can be done with very little CSS and lots of images. The page at, http://www.yabb.info/community/, has 2 styles, no Javascript, and looks very respectable. But look at all the GIF's. If the web-centric, software-tools development community feels strongly about perpetuating old browsers (and old web standards) then isn't it about time for that community to provide tools to hide the details? When will Python, and for sure Zope, have built-in browser detection and formatting support driven by some sort of meta format that let's us application developers get on with developing applications? Bill "The commandments of the LORD are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the LORD are clear, giving insight to life . . . For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (Psalm 19:8, 1John 5:3) torahteacher.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 3/22/02
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
William Trenker writes: > Would you be comfortable with CSS Level 2? My own thought is that we could use CSS 2 and as much of CSS 3 as we can coax out of advanced browsers. We should use the advanced CSS features to avoid needing *Script, since that's evil and many users turn it off due to security and privacy concerns. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. PythonLabs at Zope Corporation ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
> "WT" == William Trenker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: WT> Current CSS standards even provide some of the dynamic WT> formatting, like text rollovers, that used to require WT> Javascript . When Fred showed me this, I freaked, it was so cool. But then I use Mozilla, so I don't know that you can rely on widespread support. :) -Barry ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
At 11:36 PM 4/4/02 -0600, you wrote: I think we can safely rely on CSS. Would you be comfortable with CSS Level 2? Current CSS standards even provide some of the dynamic formatting, like text rollovers, that used to require Javascript . I, for one, would limit the dependency on Javascript in the standard Zope3 skins. There are still problems with some browsers in this area. Even with the current browsers (Netscape 6.2, Internet Explorer 6, Opera 6.01) I'm still finding discrepancies. Some Javascripts work, some don't. And there's still the occasional Java Applet that works in one browser and crashes in another. Any thoughts on this? Bill "The commandments of the LORD are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the LORD are clear, giving insight to life . . . For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (Psalm 19:8, 1John 5:3) torahteacher.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 3/22/02
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
Stephan Richter writes: > I think we can safely rely on CSS. Common, Zope 3 is a new product, and if > someone needs to make it backward Browser-compatible, he can always > implement a less fancy CSS-free skin. Argh! I can hear Guido tell us about his Netscape 4 now... There are still a *lot* of people using that one and it's ilk. Browsers at that level know just enough CSS to make it painful. ;-( I've spent more time making the Python docs work in NS4 than making them look good in more modern browsers, and the more advanced efforts I've made can't go in because the older browsers just don't come close! -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. PythonLabs at Zope Corporation ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
>Perhaps we should take Lalo's suggestion further and collect a list of >existing designs that show what real graphic talent has been able to >accomplish. Some of the newer weblogs, wikis, forums, portals etc. out >there are looking almost, well, beautiful. Here's an example from YABB >(Yet Another Bulletin Board): http://www.yabb.info/community/. I'm sure >there are many more that might provide inspiration. Good stuff too. >One design consideration is how much to rely on CSS. Looking under the >hood (ie, viewing the source) for some of these "slick" designs reveals >modest to sophisticated dependence on CSS. But I think the days of >worrying how it's going to look on Netscape 4 should be just about >over. What say?? I think we can safely rely on CSS. Common, Zope 3 is a new product, and if someone needs to make it backward Browser-compatible, he can always implement a less fancy CSS-free skin. I want a product that is as slick as possible. The best-looking Zope-like product I have found so far is Westside.com; you used to get a trial account, but this seems to be deactivated. So go through the tutorial, since it has screenshots. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
At 08:04 PM 4/4/02 -0300, Lalo Martins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I propose to base the Zope3 ZMI on the Plone CMF skin (designed primarily by the talented Alexander Limi and Vidar Andersen with important coding by Alan Runyan), which can be seen at http://plone.org. Perhaps we should take Lalo's suggestion further and collect a list of existing designs that show what real graphic talent has been able to accomplish. Some of the newer weblogs, wikis, forums, portals etc. out there are looking almost, well, beautiful. Here's an example from YABB (Yet Another Bulletin Board): http://www.yabb.info/community/. I'm sure there are many more that might provide inspiration. As for the perspiration, I realize this doesn't help get the job done. But I think Zope deserves to stand out above the crowd and it doesn't hurt to check out the competition. One design consideration is how much to rely on CSS. Looking under the hood (ie, viewing the source) for some of these "slick" designs reveals modest to sophisticated dependence on CSS. But I think the days of worrying how it's going to look on Netscape 4 should be just about over. What say?? Bill "The commandments of the LORD are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the LORD are clear, giving insight to life . . . For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." (Psalm 19:8, 1John 5:3) torahteacher.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.343 / Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 3/22/02
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] isecure XML-RPC handling.
There are two completely different things: 1. the server log 2. the output to the client. In the first case you may log everything that you thing it is reasonable - stack traces and dumps, relative and absolute paths, etc. It can may be assumed that is secure since in general it is not accessible out of the box. My personal opinion is that even this log have to differ if -D (debug option) is misplayed. In the second case it is better if Zope is returning just the error or the response. In the XML-RPC case the error have to be a valid XML-RPC response, not a stack trace. I can get that a stack trace may be extremely useful for a developer but cant he see the server's error log? BW if a program is expecting XML-RPC response but it is receiving stack trace it may be a little confusing (especially for a not so well written program ;). Zope first have to conform the protocol for XML-RPC exchange (return XML response) and after that to sweet the developers (dump error in the server's log). Regards, Rossen - Original Message - From: "Dieter Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Shane Hathaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Rossen Raykov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] isecure XML-RPC handling. > Shane Hathaway writes: > > If you can, please check out the latest Zope from CVS. Tracebacks no > > longer appear by default, and even when they do, they do not show any > > filesystem paths. (If you already have a checkout, make sure you use > > "cvs up -dP" to get the new product.) > I am very interested in filesystem paths, not necessary absolute ones > but relative pathnames are very helpful to locate a problem. > > > Dieter > _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 03:05:39PM -0600, Stephan Richter wrote: > Hello everyone, > > as we are moving forward developing Zope 3 with large steps, it becomes > more and more desirable to think about a nice frontend (ZMI) for Zope 3. > > However the skill set of the developers currently working on Zope 3 does > not include good graphics design skills. For this reason the development > team is looking for one to two good graphic artists who would like to work > on the look and feel of the new Zope version. Since it is fully developed > from scratch, there are almost no restrictions, other than: It has to be > functional. > > Are there any takers? I propose to base the Zope3 ZMI on the Plone CMF skin (designed primarily by the talented Alexander Limi and Vidar Andersen with important coding by Alan Runyan), which can be seen at http://plone.org. I don't know if Limi & group are available to do the work themselves, unless ZC hires them for the job, but I don't think they would object either. I know at least Alan has a lot of interest in Z3. As I'm skinning Plone/CMF for my primary job, I'd be willing to do (or coordinate if other people want to help) the work of adapting the skin to Zope3 needs. []s, |alo + -- It doesn't bother me that people say things like "you'll never get anywhere with this attitude". In a few decades, it will make a good paragraph in my biography. You know, for a laugh. -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ Python Foundry Guide http://www.sf.net/foundry/python-foundry/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZEO 1.0b6 released
I have just released ZEO 1.0 beta 6. It's been almost six months since the last beta release, so it was surely time. This release fixes two bugs that Zope Corp. has recently run into in the field. See http://www.zope.org/Products/ZEO/. Here are the changes: - Fixed a bug that could cause the server to stop committing transactions for a storage. The bug occurred under the following circumstances: - A synchronous client made a tpc_begin() request. - The request arrived while another transaction was in progress. - The other transaction finished. - The client closed the connection or an unexpected error occurred while the server was handling the client's tpc_begin(). The fix is to make the code to resume a waiting transaction robust in the face of disconnects and errors. - Fixed bugs in the storage server and the trigger module that caused the server to fail with uncaught exceptions when it received a signal. The start script installs several signal handlers, so the server should not fail when those signals are received. These bugs might have occurred in other circumstances, too. Note: The signal handlers are not particularly useful with the default zLOG backend (STUPID_LOG_FILE). - Upgrade to license to ZPL 2.0 I expect to release ZEO 1.0 final next week. I'll also take this opportunity to mention future ZEO development plans. I plan to make a ZEO 1.1 release sometime this month. This release will add some debugging support and a few minor features that have proved useful in high-volume ZEO clusters. I also plan to make an alpha release of ZEO 2.0. ZEO 2 is a partial re-implementation of ZEO that provides a new RPC protocol between the ZEO clients and server. The new RPC protocol will make it possible to extend ZEO with new features and to make changes that will improve performance. ZEO 2.0 alpha 1 will be a baseline that provides the new protocol, but probably none of the features. If there are any crucial feature requests for ZEO 1.1, now is the time to make them (patches preferred :-). Otherwise, new features will be postponed to ZEO 2.0. Jeremy ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
Hello everyone, as we are moving forward developing Zope 3 with large steps, it becomes more and more desirable to think about a nice frontend (ZMI) for Zope 3. However the skill set of the developers currently working on Zope 3 does not include good graphics design skills. For this reason the development team is looking for one to two good graphic artists who would like to work on the look and feel of the new Zope version. Since it is fully developed from scratch, there are almost no restrictions, other than: It has to be functional. Are there any takers? Regards, Stephan PS: I am sorry about the cross posts, but I think this is a Zope-Dev/Zope3-Dev message with an audiance mostly found on the Zope Mailing List. -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] isecure XML-RPC handling.
Shane Hathaway writes: > If you can, please check out the latest Zope from CVS. Tracebacks no > longer appear by default, and even when they do, they do not show any > filesystem paths. (If you already have a checkout, make sure you use > "cvs up -dP" to get the new product.) I am very interested in filesystem paths, not necessary absolute ones but relative pathnames are very helpful to locate a problem. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3
The tarballer tends to break stuff. I think it has something to do with long filenames. I submitted an issue to the zope-web tracker about this a while back, but I can't imagine it's a high-priority issue. - Original Message - From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > Looks like the tar ball might be broken. > At least > http://cvs.zope.org/Zope/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIndex/Splitte > r/__init__.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup show > that the __init__.py file is not empty. > Try to perform a fresh checkout from cvs.zope.org instead > of using the tarball. > > -aj > - Original Message - > From: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 01:23 > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > > > > > That is correct, but in the CVS tree the file is empty. > > I checked out from the CVS tree yesterday. > > > > Here: > > > http://cvs.zope.org/~checkout~/Zope/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn > > dex/Splitter/ZopeSplitter/ > > > > I also downloaded a tar ball for the HEAD tag, which also gives a > > __init__.py which zero bytes. > > > > Best regards > > > > Petter Enholm > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 6:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:27 > > > Subject: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I checked the directory containing ZopeSplitter and I saw that the > > > > __init__.py file was empy. I copied on the one from Zope-2.5.1-b1 - > and > > > Zope > > > > starts without problems. I am curious now, what is the problem here ? > > Can > > > I > > > > continue running with the __init__.py from older Zope version or is > > there > > > > other things that must be done to my installation. > > > > > > Neither the ZopeSplitter/__init__.py file for 2.4.3 nor 2.5.1b1 are > empty > > > for me. > > > > > > -aj > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > > > > > > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3
Looks like the tar ball might be broken. At least http://cvs.zope.org/Zope/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIndex/Splitte r/__init__.py?rev=1.8&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup show that the __init__.py file is not empty. Try to perform a fresh checkout from cvs.zope.org instead of using the tarball. -aj - Original Message - From: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 01:23 Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > That is correct, but in the CVS tree the file is empty. > I checked out from the CVS tree yesterday. > > Here: > http://cvs.zope.org/~checkout~/Zope/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn > dex/Splitter/ZopeSplitter/ > > I also downloaded a tar ball for the HEAD tag, which also gives a > __init__.py which zero bytes. > > Best regards > > Petter Enholm > > - Original Message - > From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Petter Enholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:27 > > Subject: [Zope-dev] Splitter problem #3 > > > > > > > > > > I checked the directory containing ZopeSplitter and I saw that the > > > __init__.py file was empy. I copied on the one from Zope-2.5.1-b1 - and > > Zope > > > starts without problems. I am curious now, what is the problem here ? > Can > > I > > > continue running with the __init__.py from older Zope version or is > there > > > other things that must be done to my installation. > > > > Neither the ZopeSplitter/__init__.py file for 2.4.3 nor 2.5.1b1 are empty > > for me. > > > > -aj > > > > > > > > ___ > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] isecure XML-RPC handling.
Rossen Raykov wrote: > My point was that Zope is revealing internal information that is believed to > be private and invisible for the Internet users. > It happens in its default (debug) installation and even after -D option is > removed from the startup script. Rossen and others interested in tracebacks, If you can, please check out the latest Zope from CVS. Tracebacks no longer appear by default, and even when they do, they do not show any filesystem paths. (If you already have a checkout, make sure you use "cvs up -dP" to get the new product.) To see tracebacks, add a "Site Error Log" to your Zope. After an exception has occurred, visit it (it's called error_log). It will let you see the site errors that have occurred recently. Shane ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
