Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 13:07, Sylvain Viollon wrote: > That would be great, for my part to be able to have the management tools > (packing and such) in a separate package than the object browsing Excellent point. > (and even > the object actions, if you want to keep them, I don't want them). We need two packages for the object browser: One with the interfaces and layers to enable registration of the object actions and views, and one with the actual object browser views, that makes use of these registered actions and views. And we need one package that contain the "New ZMI" which is basically just a Zope Control panel, where the object browser is just one plugin to that control panel. //Lennart ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
> > > Having different roles will help greatly yes, and even if we end up with > multiple packages that would still be a great idea to have, but again, if I > don't > expect (want) my users to use this browsing interface at all, why should I > load all its code when the server start ? > > That just increase the application footprint for nothing, and designing the > new > ZMI in two or three packages (not 50) would solve it. Makes sense to me. Two or three roles, and two or three packages. One role per package. In any case it should be possible to split ZAM out into different pieces. I am really glad to see that multiple people are interested in building on ZAM and working with it. That motivates me to work on it. Thank you so much Roger for pointing out the + sign for adding objects in the ZAM interface. Now I just need to figure out how to get it to work! Regards Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
Hello, Op 6 feb 2012, om 17:06 heeft Christopher Lozinski het volgende geschreven: > Very good point about different user types. Maybe we could have > different permissions on the different roles, and people only get to see > their version. Right now there is just a single ZMI permission. At > least in Zope 2 that was the case. > > So I suggest we have 3 new roles. > > System Administrator, Zope Administrator, Zope Developer. > > System administrator could view the database size, pack it, and start > and stop zope. That is about it. Zope administrator could also move > things around and delete things.Maybe add a few types of objects, > such as cache objects. Zope developer could add arbitrary objects. > > I think this distinction would go a long way towards resolving the > conflicts I have seen over the years about the ZMI. Having different roles will help greatly yes, and even if we end up with multiple packages that would still be a great idea to have, but again, if I don't expect (want) my users to use this browsing interface at all, why should I load all its code when the server start ? That just increase the application footprint for nothing, and designing the new ZMI in two or three packages (not 50) would solve it. And I am against 50 packages too, as setuptools get exponentially slower when you load entry_points, as it check that all dependencies of your packages are installed. Regards, Sylvain, -- Sylvain Viollon -- Infrae t +31 10 243 7051 -- http://infrae.com Hoevestraat 10 3033GC Rotterdam -- The Netherlands ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
Very good point about different user types. Maybe we could have different permissions on the different roles, and people only get to see their version. Right now there is just a single ZMI permission. At least in Zope 2 that was the case. So I suggest we have 3 new roles. System Administrator, Zope Administrator, Zope Developer. System administrator could view the database size, pack it, and start and stop zope. That is about it. Zope administrator could also move things around and delete things.Maybe add a few types of objects, such as cache objects. Zope developer could add arbitrary objects. I think this distinction would go a long way towards resolving the conflicts I have seen over the years about the ZMI. What do you think? Regards Chris On 2/6/12 7:07 AM, Sylvain Viollon wrote: > Hello, > > Op 6 feb 2012, om 10:26 heeft Lennart Regebro het volgende geschreven: > >> This is at least an important attitude. >> I think also a future admin interface to a large extent should lose >> many of the ZMI concepts. For example, we need several management >> tools, like what is in the control panel at the moment. But that >> should be separate from the browsing of objects. That browsing should >> instead be a rather low-level ZODB browser, IMO. >> > That would be great, for my part to be able to have the management tools > (packing and such) in a separate package than the object browsing (and even > the object actions, if you want to keep them, I don't want them). > > For some projects, I don't wish people to be able to browser the ZODB > objects > and fucked up things by copying, renaming objects and things like that, but > I still want them to able to access the packing screen and such tools. > > And for this same reason, those two package should not depend on each > others, so I say +1. > > Regards, > > Sylvain, > > -- Regards Christopher Lozinski Check out my iPhone apps TextFaster and EmailFaster http://textfaster.com Expect a paradigm shift. http://MyHDL.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
Hello, Op 6 feb 2012, om 10:26 heeft Lennart Regebro het volgende geschreven: > This is at least an important attitude. > I think also a future admin interface to a large extent should lose > many of the ZMI concepts. For example, we need several management > tools, like what is in the control panel at the moment. But that > should be separate from the browsing of objects. That browsing should > instead be a rather low-level ZODB browser, IMO. > That would be great, for my part to be able to have the management tools (packing and such) in a separate package than the object browsing (and even the object actions, if you want to keep them, I don't want them). For some projects, I don't wish people to be able to browser the ZODB objects and fucked up things by copying, renaming objects and things like that, but I still want them to able to access the packing screen and such tools. And for this same reason, those two package should not depend on each others, so I say +1. Regards, Sylvain, -- Sylvain Viollon -- Infrae t +31 10 243 7051 -- http://infrae.com Hoevestraat 10 3033GC Rotterdam -- The Netherlands ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 04:49, Roger wrote: > It has an Add menu, but there is nothing to add by default. > You can see the Add menu left from the Context Menu. It will > open if you hover on the "+". > > The important part in ZAM is, that it is cusomizable > by ist plugins. This concept was used because not > every project is using the full zope.* package stack. This is at least an important attitude. I think also a future admin interface to a large extent should lose many of the ZMI concepts. For example, we need several management tools, like what is in the control panel at the moment. But that should be separate from the browsing of objects. That browsing should instead be a rather low-level ZODB browser, IMO. //Lennart ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
Hi Christopher > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: zope-dev-boun...@zope.org [mailto:zope-dev-boun...@zope.org] Im Auftrag > von Christopher Lozinski > Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Februar 2012 12:35 > An: Laurence Rowe > Cc: c...@gocept.com; zope-dev@zope.org > Betreff: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo > > On 2/1/12 10:39 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote: > > I wasn't able to get zam.demo (svn trunk) to run, so I don't have an > > opinion on ZAM itself at the moment. Note that Zope 4 is based on Zope > > 2 rather than BlueBream so I don't know how much of the existing work > > would still be applicable. > Not being able to fire up the demo is a problem. Since people are > talking about upgrading the ZMI, they should take a look at ZAM, but it > does not currently install correctly. So you can take at an older > install here: > > http://ejr0.x.rootbsd.net:8080/ > > Login:Manager > Password:password > > I will leave it up for a few days. If anyone wants to see it in the > future, and it is down, just ask me to fire it up. > > It has Copy, Cut, Rename, Delete. No Add. So I am going back to the > ugly ZMI. It has an Add menu, but there is nothing to add by default. You can see the Add menu left from the Context Menu. It will open if you hover on the "+". The important part in ZAM is, that it is cusomizable by ist plugins. This concept was used because not every project is using the full zope.* package stack. ZAM allows you to install a package include the configure.zcml and the UI get enhanced. but this makes ZAM a little bit complex because of it's layer interfaces. Probably ZAM should get improved and just use one layer or something like that. Regards Roger Ineichen > Hope this helps the people who are thinking of working on the ZMI. Also > it is interesting to look at ice.control. > > -- > > Regards > Christopher Lozinski > > Check out my iPhone apps TextFaster and EmailFaster > http://textfaster.com > > Expect a paradigm shift. > http://MyHDL.org > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo
On 2/1/12 10:39 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote: > I wasn't able to get zam.demo (svn trunk) to run, so I don't have an > opinion on ZAM itself at the moment. Note that Zope 4 is based on Zope > 2 rather than BlueBream so I don't know how much of the existing work > would still be applicable. Not being able to fire up the demo is a problem. Since people are talking about upgrading the ZMI, they should take a look at ZAM, but it does not currently install correctly. So you can take at an older install here: http://ejr0.x.rootbsd.net:8080/ Login:Manager Password:password I will leave it up for a few days. If anyone wants to see it in the future, and it is down, just ask me to fire it up. It has Copy, Cut, Rename, Delete. No Add. So I am going back to the ugly ZMI. Hope this helps the people who are thinking of working on the ZMI. Also it is interesting to look at ice.control. -- Regards Christopher Lozinski Check out my iPhone apps TextFaster and EmailFaster http://textfaster.com Expect a paradigm shift. http://MyHDL.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
