Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
One could, but it's really not worth it. It's just the laws of Python
and mutability and immutability :). (It took me years to understand
those terms. I kept associating them with 'mutable' in the "can be
made quiet" sense... Eventually my music brain stepped back and I went
"oh, MUTATE! Ahhh!". Seriously, it took me about four years to
understand that :).
Anyways, it comes down to this. They're just different statements:
>>> compiler.parse("a.b = [1,2,3]")
Module(None, Stmt([Assign([AssAttr(Name('a'), 'b', 'OP_ASSIGN')],
List([Const(1), Const(2), Const(3)]))]))
>>> compiler.parse("a.b.extend([1,2,3])")
Module(None, Stmt([Discard(CallFunc(Getattr(Getattr(Name('a'), 'b'),
'extend'), [List([Const(1), Const(2), Const(3)])], None, None))]))
It's just easier to set the dirty bit yourself or use the persistent
object (or use the trick to re-assign after modifying).
Personally, I seldom store lists, or even use them as attributes on
instances. Even outside of Zope/ZODB, I've found myself accidentally
losing data because I was carelessly using the reference. Tuples for
everybody!
On 2/15/06, Shaun Cutts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, one could have a base class along the lines of
>
> class PersistSetItemOnAttributes:
>
> def __setattr__( self, attr, val ):
> oldSI = val.__class__.__dict__.get( '__setitem__', None )
> if oldSI is not None:
> def newSI( vself, vattr, vval ):
> vself._p_changed = True # is this the right member?
> oldSI( vattr, vval )# oldSI is bound: no vself?
> val.__class__.__setitem__ = newSI
> super( PersistSetItemOnAttributes, self ).__setattr__( attr, val
> )
>
> Of course, this is really just pseudocode. For one thing, need to trap
> whether 'val' is really a class. For another if you were serious about
> this, you would want to check if the obj wasn't persistent first, and
> you might want to do it recursively. And while your are at it, you might
> want to check on other mutators as well(for instance, check first
> what sequence interface if any 'val' supports...)
>
> ... sounds like too much work, and would be problem prone even so. After
> all, some things you don't want to be persistent!
>
> - Shaun
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of Stephan Richter
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:43 AM
> > To: zope3-users@zope.org
> > Cc: Florian Lindner
> > Subject: Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
> >
> > On Wednesday 15 February 2006 08:21, Peter Bengtsson wrote:
> > > class PersistentAnything(PersistentMapping, PersistentList,
> > > PersistentDict):
> >
> > AA! This is so wrong! It merges two incompatible APIs: collections
> and
> > mappings. The non-persistent equivalent to this is:
> >
> > >>> class DoEverything(set, list, dict):
> > ... pass
> >
> > > Am I just trying to make it too simple?
> >
> > I think you try far too hard to not understand why the persistent
> > mechanism
> > works as it does. You make your life harder than it has to be.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stephan
> > --
> > Stephan Richter
> > CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
> > Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
> > ___
> > Zope3-users mailing list
> > Zope3-users@zope.org
> > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
>
>
>
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--
Jeff Shell
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Re: [Zope3-Users] Please Guido, pick me, pick me!
Hi All, I am pretty much an observer who has been to a sprint but just can't find the time in the commercial world to contribute to the code base but one who really believes in Zope 3 and have been using Zope 2 since its inception and convincing people that its a worthwhile framework while often getting frustrated with its magic and ways. I agree with all the Joel's rant below was a great summary of the general discussion. I would love to help with this and can organise some funding for people's time to putting this site together. I haven't seen it before in the Zope 3 community but maybe we could start a thing on Fundable.org to get some money for this thing. Or would ZF be the place to approach about this? I am not really up with the play on where ZF is at and what its going to do. Anyway my company could contribute $1000 NZD (about $700 USD at the moment) to this to get the ball rolling. Should I try to organise this myself or is there already people responsible for this type of thing? Cheers, Pete Joel Moxley wrote: The Zope Foundation, which is probably coming pretty darn soon, might help catalyze contributors a bit. It will own the zope3.org domain, the zope.org domain, and probably lots more, and all of the software. But before or after the foundation, I think small steps are more likely to succeed than grand plans. Someone writing an impressive brochure-ware site about Zope 3 is going to be easier and more impressive than trying to get folks to agree on a grand Zope 3 software site. Someone assembling some of the word-smithing in this thread might even generate a simple impressive advocacy *page* that could be linked to from the front of zope.org. I thought Joel's post had some ring to it, for instance. Whether or not we have a "Zope 3: Rebel Angel" rename :-), it would be great to see Joel or Martin or someone step up to put some advocacy out there. If I can help with trying to figure out who to ask for what, let me know. As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a coherent online identity. There needs to be a single place that answers the following questions: 1) What is Zope 3? 2) Why use Zope 3? 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks? 4) How do I get started? Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on worldcookery. However, I would also love to see a section on the lead developers answering Q1-Q3. And this would be in conjunction with conveying... Zope3's shtick: Zope3 is not flashy. Zope3 does not put pastel colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength platform. It's where you come when you want to do it right. It was coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing :). And so forth. This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3. And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength" quality with examples. Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool, corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real, and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site". In a sense, we'd want to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms :) Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way. Instead of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that Zope3 does have. It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal way to do this, As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent online identity. I certainly think release names would be fun (and not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want). Overall, I think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move hand in hand with development. Joel [1] For those not familiar with Chuck Norris, he's a no-nonsense martial arts guy and the subject of these very amusing "facts". http://www.4q.cc/chuck/index.php?topthirty ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Swiss Easter Sprint - Announcement
Swiss Easter Sprint "Sorry for cross posting, I just will make sure that nobody feels like not invited and has a chance to participate." When The sprint starts on Saturday, April 8, at 9:00am and will end on Wednesday, April 12 in the afternoon. The official welcome activity will be at noon on April 8. Where The workshop will be located in Cham. Cham is a Town near Zug, Switzerland. Yeah, Zug is a town and doesn't mean Zope User Group! http://www.cham.ch/de/portrait/sehenswuerdigkeiten What Zope 3 Strategy Workshop The future of Zope 3 and its role for other frameworks With the recent interest of the wider community in Zope 3, it is important to define Zope 3 in light of this. Discussions could be held about what should be the Zope 3 core, how can other development shape the core and how Zope 3 can best support high-level frameworks, such as Cubed. In previous sprints we have also worked on a new face for Zope 3, a new Web site. This and other Zope 3 marketing material could be developed during the sprint, making the event also interesting for non-developers. It would be really great to have a Zope 3 "promotion" leam at the sprint. This is a great opportunity for Zope 3 core developers and framework builders to meet and have discussions. We will define more concrete topics to work on and discuss as we come closer to the sprint date. Zope 3 Core Development We have recently seen and will see a lot of reorganization of the core. However, a lot of the changes (with exception of Jim's adapter registry rewrite) are cosmetic, leaving some tougher technical challenges open. Since this sprint will be a true Zope 3 sprint, we could address some really hard-core issues, like menues, new widget package, formlib work, etc. The actual topics will depend on the participants, of course. Zope 3 Experimentation Recently, there have been several experimental packages under development, like the boston skin and the WebDev package while others have been proposed like Shane's Web root or indirection tool. While not directly usable in a release, this research work is necessary to give Zope 3 the cutting edge in the future. You can register yourself on the sprint page at: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/SwissEaster Sprint Or send me a mail if you don't have access for editing the Wiki-Page and add yourself to the participant list. Regards Roger Ineichen _ Projekt01 GmbH www.projekt01.ch Langackerstrasse 8 6330 Cham phone +41 (0)41 781 01 78 mobile+41 (0)79 340 52 32 fax +41 (0)41 781 00 78 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ END OF MESSAGE ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Igor Stroh wrote: > Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: > >>On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 09:15:42PM +0100, Florian Lindner wrote: >> >> >>>I also think that pure Latex would be the best choice. It's convertible into >>>a >>>lot different formats and can be edited just using a simple text editor. >> >> >>Isn't Docbook a better choice? Is is specially designed for documents like >>this, and easily parsable. lots of tools around. >>It can (AFAIK) be read and written by Open Office or any text editor. > > > +1 > > DocBook is definitely a better choice, there's db2latex for LaTeX > (and PDF) conversion and various XSLT stylesheets for HTML. To prove this statement, I've created a simple source tree that can be used to automate the whole process: z3lb-docbook/ |-- Makefile |-- html-styles.xsl |-- src/ | |-- intro.xml | |-- new_chapter.py | |-- z3livebook.css | `-- z3livebook.xml `-- tex-styles.xsl Just run `make html` or `make pdf` to produce HTML or PDF respectively. Dependencies (as Debian packages): o docbook-xml (pdf+html) o tetex-bin (pdf) o xsltproc (pdf+html) o docbook-xsl (html) I'm using a similar setup to write my diploma thesis, so far it works quite well. Cheers, Igor P.S.: "DocBook - The Definitive Guide" http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/docbook.html z3lb-docbook.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On 2/15/06, Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've never tried using OpenOffice and I'm not sure whether > its changes would actually leave existing whitespace intact (this would > be crucial for decent diffs). I've worked a bit with generating OpenDocument documents for use with OpenOffice, and have no expectation that the document will be edited in a way that a plain-text user will be happy with. Since the files are ZIP files that contain XML, it's not like supporting plain text users is a use-case for OpenDocument. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "There is no wealth but life." --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
RE: [Zope3-Users] Lists dont accept default values
Frank, I'm not sure how widgets manage to get default values; I know that zope.schema itself doesn't set them. There is further problem with the design for "default" -- see discussion of "default_factory" on zope3-dev: basically, even if the widget were to get this default, it would be *the* list for every implementation of IMyContent (not *a* list with these default values). Maybe for this very reason the widget ignores the default. Ideally (in my opinion) there would be a default_factory attribute for mutable schema objects, and spec of the list would be: default_factory = lambda : list( ( 1,2,3,5,7 ) ) # new every time, right? That said, if these defaults are taken out of a finite universe then Florian's response is correct. - Shaun ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
RE: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
Well, one could have a base class along the lines of class PersistSetItemOnAttributes: def __setattr__( self, attr, val ): oldSI = val.__class__.__dict__.get( '__setitem__', None ) if oldSI is not None: def newSI( vself, vattr, vval ): vself._p_changed = True # is this the right member? oldSI( vattr, vval )# oldSI is bound: no vself? val.__class__.__setitem__ = newSI super( PersistSetItemOnAttributes, self ).__setattr__( attr, val ) Of course, this is really just pseudocode. For one thing, need to trap whether 'val' is really a class. For another if you were serious about this, you would want to check if the obj wasn't persistent first, and you might want to do it recursively. And while your are at it, you might want to check on other mutators as well(for instance, check first what sequence interface if any 'val' supports...) ... sounds like too much work, and would be problem prone even so. After all, some things you don't want to be persistent! - Shaun > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Stephan Richter > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:43 AM > To: zope3-users@zope.org > Cc: Florian Lindner > Subject: Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent > > On Wednesday 15 February 2006 08:21, Peter Bengtsson wrote: > > class PersistentAnything(PersistentMapping, PersistentList, > > PersistentDict): > > AA! This is so wrong! It merges two incompatible APIs: collections and > mappings. The non-persistent equivalent to this is: > > >>> class DoEverything(set, list, dict): > ... pass > > > Am I just trying to make it too simple? > > I think you try far too hard to not understand why the persistent > mechanism > works as it does. You make your life harder than it has to be. > > Regards, > Stephan > -- > Stephan Richter > CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) > Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training > ___ > Zope3-users mailing list > Zope3-users@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
On 2/15/06, Peter Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > D'oh! That's confusing. Isn't there a class that gathers all of these in one. All of who? > It seems confusing, you derive from Persistent but only some are accepted. > Does that mean that there's PersistentFloat and PersistentTuple too? Because floats and tuples are not mutable. You can't change them, so the don't need to know that they should be persisted when changed. > If not, why *only* dicts? There is also PersistentList. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Lists dont accept default values
Am Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2006 14:40 schrieb Frank Burkhardt:
> Hi,
>
> I wrote a schema like this to have a list of objects on a content object:
>
> class IMyContent(Interface):
> mynumbers=List(
>title=_(u"Cool Numbers"),
>required=True,
>value_type=Int(
> title=_("integer")
>)
>default=[1,2,3,5,7]
> )
I think the default property expects one item of your list, so either 1, 2, 3,
5 or 7, not all of them.
If you want to define the set of selectable values you maybe rather want to
use a Choice field and specify the values property. Or set a Choice field as
value for value_type.
See Stephans book [1], chapther 8.3 Core Schema Fields
[1]
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Zope3Book
Regards,
Florian
> myline=TextLine(
>title=_("A line of text"),
>required=True,
>default=u'default test'
> )
>
> I'm using an 'addform' to add self made objects to my site but
> unfortunately the list mynumbers is not initialized with those 5 default
> numbers. The default value of myline is displayed correctly on the add
> form.
>
> Does anyone know, how this can be fixed?
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Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
On 2/15/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 01:21:14PM +, Peter Bengtsson wrote: > > I understand the mutation stuff and I always do it like this in zope2 > > (I'm a complete beginner in the zope3 world eager to learn): > > > > def updatesometing(self): > >#self.numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" > >numbers = self.numbers > >numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" > >self.numbers = numbers > > > > But in zope2 land, if I derive from Persistent it magically saves ALL > > attributes defined in __init__ assuming that I post-write to them > > correct as shown above. > > That hasn't changed in zope 3. This is just standard ZODB behavior. > setattr will cause a save on commit regardless of the type of > the value. If you read Jeff's reply again carefully, he said as much. > > PersistentList and PersistentDict are not new, either. > They've been used in Zope 2 projects for ages. > > There are still exactly three ways to get sub-object mutations to > persist: > > 1) Set the "dirty bit" by hand, e.g.: > > self.alist.append(1) > self._p_changed = 1 > > 2) Re-assign the attribute, e.g.: > > alist = self.alist > alist.append(1) > self.alist = alist > > 3) Using a persistent sub-object, e.g. a PersistentList instance: > > self.alist.append(1) > Now I get it! Sorry for being slow and thanks for explaining. So by using PersistentList it just means that you can use: self.alist.append(1) in your code. The attribute, self.alist, is still saved even without PersistentList but it just means you have to be careful when writing to it. Cool! -- Peter Bengtsson, work www.fry-it.com home www.peterbe.com hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Fred Drake wrote: >>So with that in mind, if you do not know how to do professional desktop >>publishing, then LaTeX is a much better options, since it results look really >>professional. > > We also have lots of cool support for Python documentation in LaTeX, > which makes it really easy to work with after learning only some > basics of LaTeX. I wish the standard library was using reST. ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Re: Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: >>I also think that pure Latex would be the best choice. It's convertible into >>a >>lot different formats and can be edited just using a simple text editor. > > Isn't Docbook a better choice? Is is specially designed for documents like > this, and easily parsable. lots of tools around. > It can (AFAIK) be read and written by Open Office or any text editor. I have used and continue to happily use DocBook for my book. I indeed use db2latex to convert it to LaTeX because that's what the publisher wants. You can also easily create HTML, manpages or PDFs (via XSL-FO). I use emacs and nxml-mode to edit DocBook. nxml-mode gives me on-the-fly validation and schema-based auto-completion. It makes me very productive. I've never tried using OpenOffice and I'm not sure whether its changes would actually leave existing whitespace intact (this would be crucial for decent diffs). By the way (1), I would very much recommend against LaTeX. I don't think everyone knows how to use it properly (I sure don't). I also think it does too much at a time (being a typesetting tool that also stores the content you're trying to typeset). With DocBook or similar formats, you can edit what matters, the content, and worry about what it's going to look like later. By the way (2), I also don't totally agree with Stephan on reST. I think reST is a powerful tool and often underestimated. When parsing reST text, docutils builds a DOM-like object structure which can easily be serialized into XML and then to anything. The standard rst2html and rst2latex scripts provided by docutils are only two possibilities. The thought of switching my book to reST has crossed my mind two or three times even, but for now I'm staying with the technology that I know and that works. Philipp ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 01:21:14PM +, Peter Bengtsson wrote: > I understand the mutation stuff and I always do it like this in zope2 > (I'm a complete beginner in the zope3 world eager to learn): > > def updatesometing(self): >#self.numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" >numbers = self.numbers >numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" >self.numbers = numbers > > But in zope2 land, if I derive from Persistent it magically saves ALL > attributes defined in __init__ assuming that I post-write to them > correct as shown above. That hasn't changed in zope 3. This is just standard ZODB behavior. setattr will cause a save on commit regardless of the type of the value. If you read Jeff's reply again carefully, he said as much. PersistentList and PersistentDict are not new, either. They've been used in Zope 2 projects for ages. There are still exactly three ways to get sub-object mutations to persist: 1) Set the "dirty bit" by hand, e.g.: self.alist.append(1) self._p_changed = 1 2) Re-assign the attribute, e.g.: alist = self.alist alist.append(1) self.alist = alist 3) Using a persistent sub-object, e.g. a PersistentList instance: self.alist.append(1) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On 2/15/06, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So with that in mind, if you do not know how to do professional desktop > publishing, then LaTeX is a much better options, since it results look really > professional. We also have lots of cool support for Python documentation in LaTeX, which makes it really easy to work with after learning only some basics of LaTeX. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "There is no wealth but life." --John Ruskin ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 08:21, Peter Bengtsson wrote: > class PersistentAnything(PersistentMapping, PersistentList, > PersistentDict): AA! This is so wrong! It merges two incompatible APIs: collections and mappings. The non-persistent equivalent to this is: >>> class DoEverything(set, list, dict): ... pass > Am I just trying to make it too simple? I think you try far too hard to not understand why the persistent mechanism works as it does. You make your life harder than it has to be. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Lists dont accept default values
Hi,
I wrote a schema like this to have a list of objects on a content object:
class IMyContent(Interface):
mynumbers=List(
title=_(u"Cool Numbers"),
required=True,
value_type=Int(
title=_("integer")
)
default=[1,2,3,5,7]
)
myline=TextLine(
title=_("A line of text"),
required=True,
default=u'default test'
)
I'm using an 'addform' to add self made objects to my site but unfortunately
the list mynumbers is not initialized with those 5 default numbers. The
default value of myline is displayed correctly on the add form.
Does anyone know, how this can be fixed?
Regards,
Frank
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Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
-- Forwarded message -- From: Peter Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jeff Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:14:58 + Subject: Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent On 2/15/06, Jeff Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/14/06, Peter Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > D'oh! That's confusing. Isn't there a class that gathers all of these in > > one. > > > > It seems confusing, you derive from Persistent but only some are accepted. > > Does that mean that there's PersistentFloat and PersistentTuple too? > > If not, why *only* dicts? > > As mentioned above, it applies to *mutable* objects. > > > Instances of Persistent based classes know when they change. Like if you do:: > > clive.age = 28 > > > On the other hand, if you do:: > > clive.favoriteNumbers.append(13) > > 'clive' does not change. 'favoriteNumbers' changes. If favoriteNumbers > is a regular Python list, the persistence machinery has no idea that > it's changed. It's not being assigned to 'clive', it's already an > attribute there and is not being replaced. So if it's not a > PersistentList, it gets forgotten. > > > It's not only dicts, it's dicts and lists (PersistentDict and PersistentList). > > I don't know if there's a PersistentSet. Python offers two sets since > 2.3 - a mutable (list-like) one and an immutable (tuple-like) one. I > imagine that if you use the mutable set (``sets.Set`` in 2.3, ``set`` > in 2.4), you'd run into the same problems. But if you used the > immutable set (``sets.ImmutableSet``, ``frozenset`` in 2.4) you > wouldn't. > > > So - just use PersistentList and PersistentDict (or look into BTrees > for better storage options). > > For more details, visit the ZODB documentation on ZODB programming, > and visit the section on modifying mutable objects: > > http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FrontPage/guide/node3.html > I understand the mutation stuff and I always do it like this in zope2 (I'm a complete beginner in the zope3 world eager to learn): def updatesometing(self): #self.numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" numbers = self.numbers numbers['Peter'] = "0779 123 456" self.numbers = numbers But in zope2 land, if I derive from Persistent it magically saves ALL attributes defined in __init__ assuming that I post-write to them correct as shown above. I like this simplicity and was hoping to find it in zope3 land too. I guess I'm just an old dog and if I want to drag with me the zope2 way I can do this:: import persistent.mapping.PersistentMapping import persistent.list.PersistentList import persistent.dict.PersistentDict class PersistentAnything(PersistentMapping, PersistentList, PersistentDict): I'm aware of BTrees and am/will always use it when size of objects becomes "uncontrollable". Am I just trying to make it too simple? Have I read one too many books by Steve Krug? -- Peter Bengtsson, work www.fry-it.com home www.peterbe.com hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 03:38, Chris Withers wrote: > I find it ironic the one of the first uses of PCs was to do word > processing, and yet we seem to always strive to edit plain text of one > variety or another, and yes, that includes latex ;-) That's because Word Processors just do not have the layout quality that is required for professional printed media. I would say that desktop publishing software like Quark and Indesign (and now even Scribus) have been extremely successful. Word processors do a good job when it comes to editing, since they provide spell/grammar checker, comments and change tracking. And that is how they are used by a lot of publishers. But in order to generate a book, publishers have import programs from Word to their desktop publishing software. So with that in mind, if you do not know how to do professional desktop publishing, then LaTeX is a much better options, since it results look really professional. I have more examples, but that's for another E-mail. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Squid/Apache Caching
Peter Bengtsson wrote: That's very interesting. If you understood Squid better do you think you'd leave out apache? Maybe, I guess I just have a soft spot for Apache though ;-) And what about the performance overhead? Any experience you can share? Nope, Plone gives me all the performance overhead I need... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What attributes are made persistent
Peter Bengtsson wrote: self.queue seem is empty each time I restart Zope. That's because dictionaries are not derived from Persistent. Try PersistentDict. D'oh! That's confusing. Isn't there a class that gathers all of these in one. Urm, Peter, the rules of persistence w.r.t. mutable objects have been documented for a _long_ time. There's nothing Zope 3-specific here, and someone who's been using Zope as long as you should know better ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Zope 3 Developer's LiveBook
Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 09:15:42PM +0100, Florian Lindner wrote: I also think that pure Latex would be the best choice. It's convertible into a lot different formats and can be edited just using a simple text editor. Isn't Docbook a better choice? Is is specially designed for documents like this, and easily parsable. lots of tools around. It can (AFAIK) be read and written by Open Office or any text editor. If I can use a real word processor to edit stuff (ie: OpenOffice) then I'd much prefer to see this... I find it ironic the one of the first uses of PCs was to do word processing, and yet we seem to always strive to edit plain text of one variety or another, and yes, that includes latex ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
