Damn! I really want to go and check it out, but I have nothing to show for the 5-minute presentation. :(
-tieg On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Jeremy Ashkenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Not to shamelessly plug or anything, but Ruby-Processing lets you create > applets that run in the browser, are written in Ruby, and can use > Processing > to its full extent (opengl / hardware integration etc.) and provides some > minimal shoes-like compatibility. I'm actually presenting on it tonight for > the Freehackers Union in NYC, if anyone's around and interested. > > (not trying to distract from the Shoes conversation) > — omygawshkenas > > On 09/03/2008 "Leslie Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I agree that it's a stretch to imagine Shoes on the browser, but there are > > several main drawbacks to Java / Flash / Silverlight. > > These are all designed mainly for sandboxed execution and rich graphical > > applications, but often times for prototyping, you need tighter desktop > > integration or the ability to drop into native code, both of which J/F/S > > aren't designed for. > > > > In contrast, the Shoes / Ruby MRI stack at least gives you is > > (a) an easy way to extend web or web apps with native code (C or Ruby) > via > > Ruby gems and Ruby/C extensions > > (b) a simpler DSL for UI authoring (in contrast to the XML-heavy, > > type-rigid directions of modern J/F/S) > > (c) an emphasis on Ruby and on tinker/bricolage innovation more > generally > > (more Haml than XAML, more jQuery than Dojo) > > > > To be specific, my most recent research involves prototyping with the > Mapnik > > mapping library written in C++, and there are many more rich media > libraries > > that go beyond <canvas> -- think more SIGGRAPH 2009 than SIGGRAPH 1974. > For > > example, how do we support rapid prototyping of multi-touch on the web? > > Ubiquitous computing? Computational photography? > > > > While it's great that Processing.js and the like exist, to be really bold > > and experimental, we (in the advanced prototyping / research / hacking > > space) need to dip and dive deeper than modern notsofreaky sandboxes > allow, > > and hope that HacketyHackers won't be confined to such small but Flashy > > spaces. > > > > ~L > > > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Bluebie, Jenna > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > I think you need to understand that it's a bit of a stretch that shoes > will > > > work as a desktop platform on OS-X, Linux, and Windows well, because > > > currently, it doesn't it kind of sort of does... We are all hopeful, > and > > > there is plenty of progress each and every day towards that fantastic > goal. > > > There are many great places shoes could visit after that, like, perhaps > the > > > iPhone, and Android devices, and perhaps the web browser too. But until > > > then, Shoes has plenty to be, plenty to live up to, and frankly, we > don't > > > need a new browser plugin for interactive widgets. We already have java > > > (think jRuby + processing), flash (javascript is a fantastic language > on > > > it's own, available in a high speed bytecode compiled version in > flash), and > > > indeed also Silverlight, which is able to run ruby applications as a > widget > > > on macs and pc's via .NET, and is gaining support from open source > platforms > > > too. > > > What the web really needs now, are quality web browsers with enough > power > > > to make fantastic javascript applications. Nobody wants to install one > more > > > plugin. They're a pain in the butt, and as google points out in their > own > > > comic, compromise google's ability to create a secure browser. Google > is one > > > of many pushing the forward now, especially with Chrome's V8 javascript > > > engine, which I expect is even faster than ruby 1.9 would be, given it > > > compiles javascript in to raw x86 machine code that runs straight on > your > > > cpu. There is no VM... the javascript becomes executable binary. > > > > > > So now we have compiled code execution speeds, brilliant css support, > > > canvas, <audio> and <video> (at least in webkit, anyone tried these in > > > Chrome yet?), and with John Resig's Processing.js, we have a good > drawing > > > api as well, with many more surely to follow. What exactly about > embedded > > > shoes would one up any of those things I wonder. > > > > > > How about this though, maybe this is better? Who wants to implement a > java > > > applet that builds in jRuby and a fake shoes interface that replicates > shoes > > > functionality via java's drawing api's, which thanks to Processing, we > now > > > are all quite aware, do not suck much. Could be nifty, and doesn't > require > > > users to install an obscure plugin with an even stranger name. > > > > > > On 03/09/2008, at 9:59 PM, Leslie Wu wrote: > > > > > > By now, some of you may have seen Google's new browser announcement, > aka > > > "Chrome" (http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/). > > > I think what's exciting about this development is that there will > finally > > > be a modern, open source WebKit-based multi-platform browser engine > that > > > supports a plugin architecture and holds the promise of easier (?) > > > hackability. > > > > > > Last year, I experimented with a whole bunch of different ways to > better > > > integrate the browser-as-app-engine and desktop (http://jinsync.com/), > and > > > looking now I see a blog post in May 2007 where I talked about the > "future > > > of the web (app)" -- http://jinsync.com/?q=node/14 -- and alas it took > a > > > while but Gears came out, and a year+ later, a beta version of Chrome > is > > > out. (Interesting also that Chrome generally addresses the notions I > > > mentioned in March 2007 -- http://jinsync.com/?q=node/12) > > > > > > And while a RESTfully Organic FF didn't quite happen ( > > > http://lwu.vox.com/library/post/on-the-future-of-the-fox.html), I'm at > > > least hopeful that Shoes and perhaps HacketyHack will find their way > mayhap > > > into Chrome. What do you folks think of that -- who wants to implement > Shoes > > > as a Chrome plugin so that somedaysoon HH will be but a button clicks > (3x) > > > away? > > > > > > I've been brainstorming interesting Chrome <-> Shoes interactions, and > I > > > generally like the idea of being able to embed Shoes apps into > webpages, > > > whether statically or dynamically, such that Shoes apps can hit back > and > > > troll the DOM jQuery/Hpricot style and Chrome can send events to Shoes. > > > Maybe what I'm really saying is, why not Shoes where today we find > Flash? > > > While I'm not proposing that Shoes take over (yet) the SWF world, Shoes > does > > > have nice native platform integration in terms of Ruby / Ruby gems and > of > > > course the ability to touch local resources through Ruby and/or > > > C-implemented libraries (Hpricot / Mongrel). > > > > > > But if that's off in the horizon, have any folks experimented with > embedded > > > Shoes in Mongrel or versa vice? I'd like to be able to send data > RESTfully > > > from my browser to Shoes apps (to do super colorful graphics and the > > > like)... > > > > > > ~L > > > > > > > > > > > >
