take a movie please?
2008/9/3 Jeremy Ashkenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Not to shamelessly plug or anything, but Ruby-Processing lets you create > applets that run in the browser, are written in Ruby, and can use Processing > to its full extent (opengl / hardware integration etc.) and provides some > minimal shoes-like compatibility. I'm actually presenting on it tonight for > the Freehackers Union in NYC, if anyone's around and interested. > > (not trying to distract from the Shoes conversation) > — omygawshkenas > > On 09/03/2008 "Leslie Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>I agree that it's a stretch to imagine Shoes on the browser, but there are >> several main drawbacks to Java / Flash / Silverlight. >> These are all designed mainly for sandboxed execution and rich graphical >> applications, but often times for prototyping, you need tighter desktop >> integration or the ability to drop into native code, both of which J/F/S >> aren't designed for. >> >> In contrast, the Shoes / Ruby MRI stack at least gives you is >> (a) an easy way to extend web or web apps with native code (C or Ruby) via >> Ruby gems and Ruby/C extensions >> (b) a simpler DSL for UI authoring (in contrast to the XML-heavy, >> type-rigid directions of modern J/F/S) >> (c) an emphasis on Ruby and on tinker/bricolage innovation more generally >> (more Haml than XAML, more jQuery than Dojo) >> >> To be specific, my most recent research involves prototyping with the Mapnik >> mapping library written in C++, and there are many more rich media libraries >> that go beyond <canvas> -- think more SIGGRAPH 2009 than SIGGRAPH 1974. For >> example, how do we support rapid prototyping of multi-touch on the web? >> Ubiquitous computing? Computational photography? >> >> While it's great that Processing.js and the like exist, to be really bold >> and experimental, we (in the advanced prototyping / research / hacking >> space) need to dip and dive deeper than modern notsofreaky sandboxes allow, >> and hope that HacketyHackers won't be confined to such small but Flashy >> spaces. >> >> ~L >> >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Bluebie, Jenna >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >> >> > I think you need to understand that it's a bit of a stretch that shoes will >> > work as a desktop platform on OS-X, Linux, and Windows well, because >> > currently, it doesn't it kind of sort of does... We are all hopeful, and >> > there is plenty of progress each and every day towards that fantastic goal. >> > There are many great places shoes could visit after that, like, perhaps the >> > iPhone, and Android devices, and perhaps the web browser too. But until >> > then, Shoes has plenty to be, plenty to live up to, and frankly, we don't >> > need a new browser plugin for interactive widgets. We already have java >> > (think jRuby + processing), flash (javascript is a fantastic language on >> > it's own, available in a high speed bytecode compiled version in flash), >> > and >> > indeed also Silverlight, which is able to run ruby applications as a widget >> > on macs and pc's via .NET, and is gaining support from open source >> > platforms >> > too. >> > What the web really needs now, are quality web browsers with enough power >> > to make fantastic javascript applications. Nobody wants to install one more >> > plugin. They're a pain in the butt, and as google points out in their own >> > comic, compromise google's ability to create a secure browser. Google is >> > one >> > of many pushing the forward now, especially with Chrome's V8 javascript >> > engine, which I expect is even faster than ruby 1.9 would be, given it >> > compiles javascript in to raw x86 machine code that runs straight on your >> > cpu. There is no VM... the javascript becomes executable binary. >> > >> > So now we have compiled code execution speeds, brilliant css support, >> > canvas, <audio> and <video> (at least in webkit, anyone tried these in >> > Chrome yet?), and with John Resig's Processing.js, we have a good drawing >> > api as well, with many more surely to follow. What exactly about embedded >> > shoes would one up any of those things I wonder. >> > >> > How about this though, maybe this is better? Who wants to implement a java >> > applet that builds in jRuby and a fake shoes interface that replicates >> > shoes >> > functionality via java's drawing api's, which thanks to Processing, we now >> > are all quite aware, do not suck much. Could be nifty, and doesn't require >> > users to install an obscure plugin with an even stranger name. >> > >> > On 03/09/2008, at 9:59 PM, Leslie Wu wrote: >> > >> > By now, some of you may have seen Google's new browser announcement, aka >> > "Chrome" (http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/). >> > I think what's exciting about this development is that there will finally >> > be a modern, open source WebKit-based multi-platform browser engine that >> > supports a plugin architecture and holds the promise of easier (?) >> > hackability. >> > >> > Last year, I experimented with a whole bunch of different ways to better >> > integrate the browser-as-app-engine and desktop (http://jinsync.com/), and >> > looking now I see a blog post in May 2007 where I talked about the "future >> > of the web (app)" -- http://jinsync.com/?q=node/14 -- and alas it took a >> > while but Gears came out, and a year+ later, a beta version of Chrome is >> > out. (Interesting also that Chrome generally addresses the notions I >> > mentioned in March 2007 -- http://jinsync.com/?q=node/12) >> > >> > And while a RESTfully Organic FF didn't quite happen ( >> > http://lwu.vox.com/library/post/on-the-future-of-the-fox.html), I'm at >> > least hopeful that Shoes and perhaps HacketyHack will find their way mayhap >> > into Chrome. What do you folks think of that -- who wants to implement >> > Shoes >> > as a Chrome plugin so that somedaysoon HH will be but a button clicks (3x) >> > away? >> > >> > I've been brainstorming interesting Chrome <-> Shoes interactions, and I >> > generally like the idea of being able to embed Shoes apps into webpages, >> > whether statically or dynamically, such that Shoes apps can hit back and >> > troll the DOM jQuery/Hpricot style and Chrome can send events to Shoes. >> > Maybe what I'm really saying is, why not Shoes where today we find Flash? >> > While I'm not proposing that Shoes take over (yet) the SWF world, Shoes >> > does >> > have nice native platform integration in terms of Ruby / Ruby gems and of >> > course the ability to touch local resources through Ruby and/or >> > C-implemented libraries (Hpricot / Mongrel). >> > >> > But if that's off in the horizon, have any folks experimented with embedded >> > Shoes in Mongrel or versa vice? I'd like to be able to send data RESTfully >> > from my browser to Shoes apps (to do super colorful graphics and the >> > like)... >> > >> > ~L >> > >> > >> > >> >
