Hi Sunny, all, My responses below, in-line.
Regards, Jordi @jordipalet > El 22 ago 2024, a las 7:46, Sunny Chendi <[email protected]> escribió: > > Dear SIG members, > > Please see below the Secretariat's impact assessment for this proposal > version 003. Which is also posted on the proposal page at: > http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-157 > > The Secretariat notes that this proposal suggests a policy modification that > would allow for temporary transfers between account holders (applying to > intra-RIR transfers, e.g. APNIC and NIR account holders, but not inter-RIR > transfers, e.g. APNIC to another RIR). > > Questions/Comments: > > The Secretariat notes that temporary transfers under the proposal would > inherit the conditions under section 11.1.2. of the APNIC Internet Number > Resource Policies, being “Conditions on the source of the transfer”. Yes, nothing changed here. > The Secretariat notes that under the redrafted proposal the source will be > responsible for oversight of the criteria set out in section 11.1.4, however > APNIC ‘will be able to establish operational practices to ensure compliance’. > Given enforcement actions taken by APNIC in accordance with such operational > practices may encroach on the responsibilities of the source and thereby > increase APNIC’s liability, it is unclear how it is proposed that APNIC > ensure compliance with section 11.1.4, especially in the event of a dispute > between the parties. The Secretariat will need to develop procedures and > additional conditions (for example under a template transfer agreement) to > account for numerous situations which may arise, such as: It is fine if APNIC wants to provide a basic framework for the agreement with minimum requirements according to the policies, but of course the source should have a more complete contract. > where there is a disagreement between the source and recipient, such as: > source requests cancellation but the recipient declines, or if the recipient > requests a transfer extension but the source declines; or This is a problem among the source and the recipient and it will depend on their contract. APNIC should not intervene here. APNIC will be only responsible for restoring the whois data at the end of the transfer period, unless both parties have reached an extension agreement. > source alleges a breach of policy regarding compliance with MANRS best > practice or the correct updating of IRR and geolocation. Again, the source contract must include the policy terms and if they aren’t met, APNIC just follows the policy terms and is only able to restore the whois data at the end of the transfer period, or in case of lack of compliance demonstrated by the source of the policy terms. The agreement framework developed by APNIC, should have the correct wording to ensure that there is no liability on the side of APNIC and the contract is being accepted by both parties. > the treatment of the resources if the source and/or recipient’s account is > closed for any reason (non-payment, company deregistered etc.). In case of source account closure, after the conclusion of the transfer period, APNIC will restore the whois data. In case of recipient closure, is up the source to have in the contract the relevant terms for this case. > if the source account is acquired (such as under a merger or acquisition > scenario) and the acquiring account holder requests to transfer all their > resource to another account, including any temporary transferred resources. The contract should have the relevant text also to ensure that in this scenario the temporary transfer is respected for the contracted period. > The time required to consider such scenarios and develop appropriate > conditions and procedures has been factored into the Implementation period > set out below. > > The Secretariat requests clarification of the meaning of the following > sentence in section 11.1.4 – “In case of lack of due diligence by a source, > even with different temporary transfers or recipients, APNIC will initiate a > warning, which, if ignored will trigger the immediate revocation of the > resources involved.” It is unclear what is meant by: > “lack of due diligence by the source”, is this intended to reference where > the source fails to adequately monitor the criteria in section 11.1.4? Yes, that’s the idea. > “even with different temporary transfers or recipients” the meaning here is > unclear. I means that if the source may fail to verify the policy terms once, get a warning from APNIC, then fail with a different transfer or a different recipient, and so on. APNIC should consider that if this is happening not just once, but multiple times, then it can increase the “warning level” even up to revocation. > “APNIC will initiate a warning” this suggests that APNIC will still be > required to enforce the criteria set out in section 11.1.4 rather than the > source. No, the warning is sent to the source, not to the recipient. The source can’t then say “I was not aware”, because 1) it was his job to verify the compliance, 2) was not doing that, and for this reason got a warning. > “trigger the immediate revocation of the resources involved” is this intended > to refer to the revocation of the temporary transfer or the revocation of the > resources from the original source, such that they are returned to the free > pool for redelegation? APNIC has not relation with the recipient, so clearly APNIC can only recover from the source. As a consequence the recipient is also loosing the right to keep using the resources. The contractual terms, following the policy text, must be explicit that this will happen if the recipient is failing to comply. There is no difference between this proposal and actual assigments that an ISP with an APNIC allocations can do. If the recipient of the assignments fails to follow policies, APNIC will always be entitled to warn the source about that and start a recovery. > Implementation: > > This proposal may require changes to APNIC systems, internal policy, > procedures, and agreements. If this proposal reaches consensus, > implementation may be completed within twelve (12) months. > > > I understand that, in fact, probably the framework contract, will take some time to ensure that doesn’t imply additional liability to APNIC, but at the same time ensures the policy compliance. > Regards, > Sunny > > > On 5/08/2024 7:01 pm, Bertrand Cherrier via SIG-policy wrote: >> Dear SIG members, >> >> A new version of the proposal "prop-157-v003: Temporary IPv4 Transfers" >> has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. >> >> Information about earlier versions is available from: >> >> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-157 >> >> You are encouraged to express your views on the proposal: >> >> - Do you support or oppose the proposal? >> - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? >> - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? >> >> Please find the text of the proposal below. >> >> Regards, >> Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam >> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> prop-157-v003: Temporary IPv4 Transfers >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez ([email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>) >> >> >> 1. Problem statement >> ------------------------ >> When in the community we discuss the need for leasing, understood >> broadly in any of its possible modalities, as one of the mechanisms to >> facilitate small sets of IPv4 addresses for the transition to IPv6, >> specially for new actors, there are mixed feelings about accepting the >> leasing or not. However, we are forgetting that there is already a >> mechanism, already accepted by the community, that could be slightly >> modified to be equivalent to a leasing, and yet have many advantages for >> both parties: temporary transfers. >> >> It is about guaranteeing compliance with the policies with a system >> equivalent to leasing, and that makes it easier to avoid security >> problems, keeping the control by the RIR/NIR, and the security of the >> return of the addresses when the leasing period concludes. >> >> At the same time, it seeks to cover the need to be flexible without >> excessive operational burden for the RIR/NIR, so that the leasing period >> can be simply extended, since it is understood that there may be >> situations in which the initially agreed period may be insufficient. >> >> It is important to emphasize that those who need these transfers, as a >> “leasing”, tend to be smaller entities or with more moderate initial >> investments and consequently are financially weaker. Therefore, given >> that the ultimate goal must be the deployment of IPv6, using IPv6-only >> and IPv4aaS, the number of IPv4 addresses that may be needed will be >> truly reduced. However, there may be other resons for such temporary >> transfers, so no limit on the prefix size is proposed. >> >> Finally, it seeks to prioritize the benefit of the region and therefore >> it makes sense that it is only applicable to operations carried out >> within the region. Furthermore, this prevents permanent transfers from >> losing reciprocity with those regions that require it. >> >> The EC could establish specific rates for this type of transfers and/or >> their extensions. >> >> >> 2. Objective of policy change >> -------------------------------- >> APNIC current policies only allow permanent IPv4 address transfers. >> >> This proposal specifies a change in the policy to allow temporary transfers. >> >> >> 3. Situation in other regions >> ------------------------------ >> As far as we know, only in RIPE NCC temporary transfers are allowed. At >> the same time, RIPE NCC does not contemplate leasing, but it does not >> explicitly prohibit it either. >> >> In AFRINIC and LACNIC, neither leasing nor temporary transfers are >> contemplated. However, an equivalent proposal has been submitted in LACNIC. >> >> Temporary transfers are not contemplated in ARIN, and leasing is not a >> valid justification of the need. When leasing addresses, no more >> addresses can be requested. Additionally, certain blocks cannot be leased. >> >> >> 4. Proposed policy solution >> ------------------------------ >> Actual text: >> 11.0. IPv4 transfers >> … >> >> APNIC will maintain a public log of all number resource (IPv4, IPv6, >> ASN) transfers, including unused (market) transfer, merger and >> acquisitions, and historical resource transfer. >> >> >> 11.1. IPv4 transfers within the APNIC region >> APNIC will process and record IPv4 address transfer requests between >> current APNIC account holders subject to the following conditions. >> >> >> 11.1.1. Conditions on the space to be transferred >> >> The minimum transfer size is a /24. >> >> The address block must be: >> • In the range of addresses administered by APNIC >> • Allocated or assigned to a current APNIC account holder >> • The address block will be subject to all current APNIC policies >> from the time of transfer. >> • Addresses delegated from the 103/8 free pool cannot be transferred >> for a minimum of five years after the original delegation. >> >> 11.1.3. Conditions on recipient of the transfer >> >> The recipient will be subject to current APNIC policies. Recipients that >> do not already hold IPv4 resources must demonstrate a detailed plan for >> the use of the transferred resource within 24 months. Recipients that >> already hold IPv4 resources must: >> >> • Demonstrate a detailed plan for the use of the transferred resource >> within 24 months, >> • Show past usage rate, and >> • Provide evidence of compliance with APNIC policies with respect to >> past delegations. >> >> >> Proposed text: >> 11.0. IPv4 transfers >> … >> >> APNIC will maintain a public log of all number resource (IPv4, IPv6, >> ASN) transfers, including unused (market) transfer, merger and >> acquisitions, and historical resource transfer. >> >> In the case of temporary IPv4 transfers, the public log will contain the >> initial date of the transfer, as well as the final one. >> The final date must be updated if the transfer period is extended by >> agreement of both parties, which must be legitimized by APNIC. >> In the case of temporary transfers, APNIC will restore the original >> registration information in the Whois Database once the transfer period >> is over. >> 11.1. IPv4 permanent and temporary transfers within the APNIC region >> APNIC will process and record permanent and temporary IPv4 address >> transfer requests between current APNIC account holders subject to the >> following conditions. >> >> 11.1.1. Conditions on the space to be transferred >> >> The minimum transfer size is a /24. >> >> The address block must be: >> • In the range of addresses administered by APNIC >> • Allocated or assigned to a current APNIC account holder >> • The address block will be subject to all current APNIC policies >> from the time of transfer. >> • Addresses delegated from the 103/8 free pool cannot be transferred >> for a minimum of five years after the original delegation. >> >> 11.1.3. Conditions on recipient of the transfer >> >> The recipient will be subject to current APNIC policies. Recipients that >> do not already hold IPv4 resources must demonstrate a detailed plan for >> the use of the transferred resource within 24 months. Recipients that >> already hold IPv4 resources must: >> >> • Demonstrate a detailed plan for the use of the transferred resource >> within 24 months (initial transfer period in case of temporary transfers), >> • Show past usage rate, and >> • Provide evidence of compliance with APNIC policies with respect to >> past delegations. >> >> 11.1.4. Additional conditions for temporary transfers >> >> Temporary transfers are subjected to additional conditions, that must be >> warranted by the transfer contract among the parties: >> • Must include terms of immediate transfer cancellation in case of >> usage of the resources for network abuse. >> • The recipient must have an ASN to announce the transferred resources. >> • The recipient must announce the IPv4 transferred resources as well >> the IPv6 resources and plan for the IPv6 deployment. >> • The recipient must have RPKI for the transferred resources. >> • The IRR and geolocation must be correctly updated. >> • The recipient must follow MANRS best practices. >> >> The source is responsible for the oversight of those conditions. APNIC >> will be able to establish operational practices to ensure compliance. >> >> In case of lack of due diligence by a source, even with different >> temporary transfers or recipients, APNIC will initiate a warning, which, >> if ignored will trigger the immediate revocation of the resources involved. >> >> >> 5. Advantages / Disadvantages >> ---------------------------------- >> Advantages: >> It allows a way to obtain resources in a temporary basis, in order to >> facilitate the IPv6 deployment in a convenient and cheaper way than >> permanent transfers, which is especially important for smaller >> organizations and newcomers. It also offers a solution of other cases >> that can benefit from this proposal. >> >> >> Disadvantages: >> None. >> >> >> 6. Impact on resource holders >> -------------------------------- >> None. >> >> >> 7. 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