Hi Marshall,
I had agreed with you to run our SG7 without the electrodes but with the
vigorous stirring the submergible pump provides. It causes the water
surface to be in constant motion so if the water increased conductivity by
absorbing Co2 it should be measurable by using the PWT meter. It didn't
change much...... starting reading was 1.8-2.0 uS as measured with three
meters. End reading was 2.7-2.9 uS. This was in a gallon of DW.
I ran the pump for about 18 hours and the reading increased by less than 1
microsiemen. Since I can produce ionic readings of 45-60 uS using only
distilled water and silver, it appears the reading must be silver ions since
they are the only thing the meter can read other than the little bit of Co2.
I didn't drive any Co2 off and do not have a pH measurement for you. My pH
meter may or may not be in calibration at this point so the reading would be
meaningless. The water was taken directly from a gallon of supermarket DW.
Trem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:16 AM
Subject: CS>CO2 and EIS
All previous posts on the composition of EIS have ignored the CO2
factor. I have explored this and have some interesting information.
Water at room temperature will equalize with the CO2 present in the
air. Although air contains about 350 or so ppm of CO2, the water will
absorb .58 ppm of CO2 before equalizing with the air. The math to
figure this out can be found at
http://www.chem.usu.edu/~sbialkow/Classes/3650/Carbonate/Carbonic%20Acid.html
and other sites list the concentration as about .5 ppm.
Pure water that has equalized with the CO2 in the air will have a pH of
5.65. I have found references that report that normal rain is about 5.7,
so this jives pretty well.
If you leave water in a glass, the surface will quickly equalize with
the air, but diffusion of the CO2 to below the surface is quite slow.
So if EIS is produced from water that has stabilized with the air and
not stirred, the amount of silver carbonate will be about 3.6 ppm.
However if the water is agitated so that the surface layer is
continually mixed with the rest of the volume, then as CO2 is consumed
by forming a carbonate, more will be absorbed from the air. If this is
taken to the limit, then up to 32 ppm of silver carbonate (the
solubility limit) can be formed.
The unanswered question is just how fast CO2 will be absorbed from the
air. I believe there is an easy way to tell with any particular setup.
First take distilled water and check the pH. If it is close to 7 then
great, if not, then heat it up to boiling to drive off the CO2. Once
cooled (without stirring), check the pH and it should be around 7. Be
sure to heat in plastic in a microwave, or glass on the stove, any
metals will likely add trace contaminates that will affect the pH or act
as a buffer invalidating the results.
Now place the water into the device for making EIS and run it with NO
electrodes. Sample the pH over time and record how fast it changes.
This will give the information as to how fast CO2 is absorbed from the
air with any particular stirring arrangement. Once we have that
information, it should be relatively easy to figure out the
concentration of silver carbonate formed by any device when making EIS.
Although simply leaving the electrodes, and not running current through
them may appear to be the same, any silver oxide on the electrodes can
dissolve and affect the pH.
Marshall
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