Kris Rivel <mailto:[email protected]>
Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:24 PM
Holy crap this thing is on fire. Been awhile since I've ranted on
anything so here it goes. I've been forced lately to dive into other
apps a bit more, mostly for converting files, comparing assets, etc.
It is ugly....Max and Maya are light years behind Softimage still...in
terms of organization and usability. Max and Maya are old, clunky and
built on paradigm that goes back over 10 years. I look at other
things out there, Houdini, Blender, Modo, etc. and you know
what....the only Autodesk app that honestly compares to them IMO, is
Soft. It just feels good and natural...very intuitive. There are
lots of little widgets and tools from the other two that I wish Soft
had but as a base system for creating something...its fast and LOGICAL!
So here's my advice to Autodesk....take the entire workflow,
organization and approach that Softimage was built on, and make a new
app that's for everyone based on that...integrate all three into one
new system thats for the next generation. Something that any Max,
Maya or Softimage artist could get used to. Can it really be that
difficult? We're at a major turning point now. The industry is
changing rapidly, its all about creating media for mobile devices, its
all about the cloud, its all about collaboration. Autodesk may miss
the boat and end up shooting itself in the foot in the M&E category.
By pushing the one shining jewel piece of software into the dark
corner, while just "kicking the can down the road" with the
antiquated, clunky and slow Maya and Max options, they face a real
risk of seeing the whole user base for all three blow up in their
face. Time for a REDO!!!
Users are experimenting in droves with other non-Autodesk
options..including myself and as fast as things move this day...you
could be out tomorrow if you miss something. Can we honestly all
envision ourselves still using Max and Maya with their layer upon
layer of windows, plugins, check boxes and patches? No way. For the
first time, I'm actually enjoying see some new innovation coming out
of other apps and it seems to be gaining momentum...hop on board
Autodesk...or its back to the old days of CAD only for you.
Kris
Kiril Aronofski <mailto:[email protected]>
Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:41 PM
Yes but as the copy states:
Autodesk® Softimage® software is a high-performance 3D character
animation and visual
effects<http://www.autodesk.com/visualeffectssoftware> application.
Given that a lot of effort is going into marketing Suites and this
also drives 3ds Max and Maya traffic to the site we were not not
going to mention the fact that Maya and 3ds Max users get benefit
from adding it to their pipeline.
You stated you market Softimage as a full-fledged application and
referenced the product page as a proof. Well, unless we have
completely different views of what is the meaning of "full-fledged" in
terms of general DCC packages, that page is not much of a proof
really. It clearly does not put SI in the same category as Max and Maya.
Maya & 3ds Max mentions compositing because it includes the
software applications Composite and MatchMover in the box.
And what kind of explanation is that? It's a bundled product (that
comes with Softimage just as well, mind you) versus integrated
solution. I hope you see how little sense it makes to boast about one
and than ignore the other.
I know it's just corporate propaganda, buzzwords and mostly
meaningless phrases, but it effects the broader public perception and
it undervalues the product and the artist behind it.
I think, if you have followed the conversation carefully, you will
understand that no one objects the effort to sell the suites. It's the
failure to market Softimage that is the problem. And if it arouse from
the similarities and overlap, that is no excuse either. You are doing
mighty fine job marketing Max and Maya as equal. It's ether one or all
three. Two just says you bitten off more than you can chew.
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Maurice Patel
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes but as the copy states:
Autodesk® Softimage® software is a high-performance 3D character
animation and visual
effects<http://www.autodesk.com/visualeffectssoftware> application.
Given that a lot of effort is going into marketing Suites and this
also drives 3ds Max and Maya traffic to the site we were not not
going to mention the fact that Maya and 3ds Max users get benefit
from adding it to their pipeline. Maya & 3ds Max mentions
compositing because it includes the software applications
Composite and MatchMover in the box.
Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of
Kiril Aronofski
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:33 PM
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: In case you missed it..
In fact, if you check, this is exactly how we do market it:
(www.autodesk.com/softimage
<http://www.autodesk.com/softimage><http://www.autodesk.com/softimage><http://www.autodesk.com/softimage>
).
As an "extension to Autodesk® Maya®<http://www.autodesk.com/maya>
or Autodesk® 3ds Max®<http://www.autodesk.com/3dsmax> software
pipelines", while Maya is "3D animation software that delivers a
comprehensive creative feature set with tools for animation,
modeling, simulation, rendering, matchmoving, and compositing on a
highly extensible production platform", and 3dsMax "provides a
comprehensive, integrated 3D modeling, animation, rendering, and
compositing solution for game developers, visual effects artists,
and motion graphics artists along with other creative
professionals working in the media design industry."
Maya is even a compositing package here, something that is only
half true (and I'm being generous), while Softimage indeed does
have an integrated compositor and its not even mentioned on the
Features page.
So again, which one of these 3 is being sold short?
Maurice Patel <mailto:[email protected]>
Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:18 PM
Yes but as the copy states:
Autodesk® Softimage® software is a high-performance 3D character
animation and visual
effects<http://www.autodesk.com/visualeffectssoftware> application.
Given that a lot of effort is going into marketing Suites and this
also drives 3ds Max and Maya traffic to the site we were not not going
to mention the fact that Maya and 3ds Max users get benefit from
adding it to their pipeline. Maya & 3ds Max mentions compositing
because it includes the software applications Composite and MatchMover
in the box.
Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kiril
Aronofski
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: In case you missed it..
In fact, if you check, this is exactly how we do market it:
(www.autodesk.com/softimage<http://www.autodesk.com/softimage><http://www.autodesk.com/softimage>
).
As an "extension to Autodesk® Maya®<http://www.autodesk.com/maya> or
Autodesk® 3ds Max®<http://www.autodesk.com/3dsmax> software
pipelines", while Maya is "3D animation software that delivers a
comprehensive creative feature set with tools for animation, modeling,
simulation, rendering, matchmoving, and compositing on a highly
extensible production platform", and 3dsMax "provides a comprehensive,
integrated 3D modeling, animation, rendering, and compositing solution
for game developers, visual effects artists, and motion graphics
artists along with other creative professionals working in the media
design industry."
Maya is even a compositing package here, something that is only half
true (and I'm being generous), while Softimage indeed does have an
integrated compositor and its not even mentioned on the Features page.
So again, which one of these 3 is being sold short?
Kiril Aronofski <mailto:[email protected]>
Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:32 PM
In fact, if you check, this is exactly how we do market it:
(www.autodesk.com/softimage
<http://www.autodesk.com/softimage><http://www.autodesk.com/softimage>
).
As an "extension to Autodesk® Maya® <http://www.autodesk.com/maya> or
Autodesk® 3ds Max® <http://www.autodesk.com/3dsmax> software
pipelines", while Maya is "3D animation software that delivers a
comprehensive creative feature set with tools for animation, modeling,
simulation, rendering, matchmoving, and compositing on a highly
extensible production platform", and 3dsMax "provides a comprehensive,
integrated 3D modeling, animation, rendering, and compositing solution
for game developers, visual effects artists, and motion graphics
artists along with other creative professionals working in the media
design industry."
Maya is even a compositing package here, something that is only half
true (and I'm being generous), while Softimage indeed does have an
integrated compositor and its not even mentioned on the Features page.
So again, which one of these 3 is being sold short?
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Maurice Patel
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Just to be clear. I run Product Marketing so what you see is in
mainly a direct result of my efforts -- no mysterious "Autodesk"
bogey man. I am ex-softimage/avid and even though I was primarily
focused on compositing and DS when I was there, I know full well
what the product is capable of and we do make every effort we can
market Softimage as a full-fledged application. In fact, if you
check, this is exactly how we do market it:
(www.autodesk.com/softimage
<http://www.autodesk.com/softimage><http://www.autodesk.com/softimage>
).
Autodesk® Softimage® 2013 3D character
animation<http://www.autodesk.com/3danimation> and visual effects
software delivers powerful new creative toolsets, a new
high-fidelity interactive environment, and extended
customizability. These new features help artists and technical
directors working in visual
effects<http://www.autodesk.com/visualeffectssoftware>, post
production<http://www.autodesk.com/postproductionsoftware>, and 3D
game
development<http://usa.autodesk.com/media-entertainment/games/>
get more from the product. From the new CrowdFX simulation
feature, to enhanced modeling, animation, physics, and selection
tools, Softimage 2013 helps you create compelling content faster.
3D Character
Rigging<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307345
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307345>>
Dynamic
Simulation<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307927
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307927>>
ICE & Softimage
GigaCore<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18306951
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18306951>>
Pipeline
Integration<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307164
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307164>>
Rendering &
Imaging<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307868
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307868>>
Character & Facial
Animation<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307811
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307811>>
Modeling &
Texturing<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307958
<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307958>>
What started this thread (and what most people seem to be hung up
on) is a very specific campaign with a very specific purpose. You
need to understand that purpose because otherwise the discussion
has no meaning. For example, if we run an upgrade program
promoting the new features in a release that does NOT mean that
those features are all that the product does. It just means that
for the intended audience (product owners that you want to
upgrade) that is the most relevant message. Of course it makes no
sense to a newcomer interested in the overall capabilities of the
product. I am going to stand by my original position that if the
intent of the campaign is to get Maya and 3ds max users to upgrade
to a Suite and start using Softimage and MotionBuilder and Mudbox
than the most effective way to do that is to tell them what those
products ADD to what they already have. The intent of the campaign
is NOT to promote the overall capabilities of Softimage to a new user.
Now we can also argue till we are blue in the face as to which
campaign we should focus on, but that campaign was specifically
chosen because (1) the strategy across all Autodesk industries is
to promote Suites and we need to align to that strategy and (2) we
have a business to run and our largest business opportunity for
Suites is of course 3ds max and Maya users. I am no Don Quixote,
and have no interest in fighting pointless battles. I still
believe we are embarked on the right strategies to (1) promote
our portfolio and (2) grow our business in the context of both
market demographics and Autodesk strategy. So let us put this one
to rest. The campaign does what it is meant to do and speculating
about alternative campaigns, while academically interesting, is
irrelevant to the goal of selling Suites.
In terms of general awareness -- we have limited budgets and so we
do what we can with what we have got. Our primary awareness
vehicle for all products is the product/trial page on Autodesk.com
-- this is where the bulk of our traffic goes and through social
media. Most of our program budgets and efforts are tied up in
Suites initiatives. While it is nice to speculate what things
would be like if Avid had not sold Softimage to Autodesk the point
is moot whether we like it or not. We are all working with that
reality and the complications that engenders. I certainly cannot
pretend like it did not happen.
Ultimately it is incorrect to assume that Marketing does not know
what Softimage does as a product nor who our customers are or what
their concerns are. We are very well aware and I and my team work
hard to do the most we can with the resources we have.
Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134
Maurice Patel <mailto:[email protected]>
Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:16 PM
Just to be clear. I run Product Marketing so what you see is in mainly
a direct result of my efforts -- no mysterious "Autodesk" bogey man. I
am ex-softimage/avid and even though I was primarily focused on
compositing and DS when I was there, I know full well what the product
is capable of and we do make every effort we can market Softimage as a
full-fledged application. In fact, if you check, this is exactly how
we do market it:
(www.autodesk.com/softimage<http://www.autodesk.com/softimage> ).
Autodesk® Softimage® 2013 3D character
animation<http://www.autodesk.com/3danimation> and visual effects
software delivers powerful new creative toolsets, a new high-fidelity
interactive environment, and extended customizability. These new
features help artists and technical directors working in visual
effects<http://www.autodesk.com/visualeffectssoftware>, post
production<http://www.autodesk.com/postproductionsoftware>, and 3D
game development<http://usa.autodesk.com/media-entertainment/games/>
get more from the product. From the new CrowdFX simulation feature, to
enhanced modeling, animation, physics, and selection tools, Softimage
2013 helps you create compelling content faster.
3D Character
Rigging<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307345>
Dynamic
Simulation<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307927>
ICE & Softimage
GigaCore<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18306951>
Pipeline
Integration<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307164>
Rendering &
Imaging<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307868>
Character & Facial
Animation<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307811>
Modeling &
Texturing<http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=18307958>
What started this thread (and what most people seem to be hung up on)
is a very specific campaign with a very specific purpose. You need to
understand that purpose because otherwise the discussion has no
meaning. For example, if we run an upgrade program promoting the new
features in a release that does NOT mean that those features are all
that the product does. It just means that for the intended audience
(product owners that you want to upgrade) that is the most relevant
message. Of course it makes no sense to a newcomer interested in the
overall capabilities of the product. I am going to stand by my
original position that if the intent of the campaign is to get Maya
and 3ds max users to upgrade to a Suite and start using Softimage and
MotionBuilder and Mudbox than the most effective way to do that is to
tell them what those products ADD to what they already have. The
intent of the campaign is NOT to promote the overall capabilities of
Softimage to a new user.
Now we can also argue till we are blue in the face as to which
campaign we should focus on, but that campaign was specifically chosen
because (1) the strategy across all Autodesk industries is to promote
Suites and we need to align to that strategy and (2) we have a
business to run and our largest business opportunity for Suites is of
course 3ds max and Maya users. I am no Don Quixote, and have no
interest in fighting pointless battles. I still believe we are
embarked on the right strategies to (1) promote our portfolio and (2)
grow our business in the context of both market demographics and
Autodesk strategy. So let us put this one to rest. The campaign does
what it is meant to do and speculating about alternative campaigns,
while academically interesting, is irrelevant to the goal of selling
Suites.
In terms of general awareness -- we have limited budgets and so we do
what we can with what we have got. Our primary awareness vehicle for
all products is the product/trial page on Autodesk.com -- this is
where the bulk of our traffic goes and through social media. Most of
our program budgets and efforts are tied up in Suites initiatives.
While it is nice to speculate what things would be like if Avid had
not sold Softimage to Autodesk the point is moot whether we like it or
not. We are all working with that reality and the complications that
engenders. I certainly cannot pretend like it did not happen.
Ultimately it is incorrect to assume that Marketing does not know what
Softimage does as a product nor who our customers are or what their
concerns are. We are very well aware and I and my team work hard to do
the most we can with the resources we have.
Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134
