Thanks raf and everyone for the advice, its really helpful.
I will now reduce their ability to key scaling on the majority of the rig. I will also try to code my way around it, problem is I don't know c++ so I'm stuck with python which I doubt will be able to save me when it comes to slow keying. I did test in 2014 btw, and it is a bit faster, but its still massively slow. I've sent the scene to Autodesk, we still have a year on Subscription so hopefully they can send us a QFE On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < [email protected]> wrote: > Sounds like a regression. > I've had rigs with controls in the hundreds of objects with quite a few > added properties and custom parameters, adding up to packs of thousands of > keyframes at a pop. It's never been blazing fast, even with rig-centric > dedicated commands, but I would have been skinned alive if it took more > than a second or two to key out a couple thousand curves. > > Consider trying to write your way around it to see how pervasive it is, > and if not too far reaching possibly stop them from staring daggers at you. > > Keying a ref model will always be slower, there's no two ways about it > when you have to deal with delta tracking rather than simply adding data > somewhere, but shouldn't be in that measure, it should be just a few > percentage points at the most. > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Enrique Caballero < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> the keys are being set just by pressing the K key and the keying mode set >> to "Key all Keyable" >> >> this is the command that gets spit out >> >> Application.SaveKeyOnKeyable() >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Enrique Caballero < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> thanks guys, >>> yep I've already sent the scene to Softimage. Its definitely a >>> Softimage 2013 Sp1 issue though and not scene related. >>> >>> The parameters that the animators can key is already fairly limited as >>> I'm pretty careful with keyable parameters. but I will strip down what i >>> can for now. >>> >>> It is slow whether or not the Fcurve editor is open. Basically setting >>> a key on a gear rig referenced model with 180 objects takes 6 seconds, a >>> local model is instant. >>> >>> I've stripped down our workgroup to nothing but gear, same problem. >>> >>> Really quite distressing! The animators are giving me dirty looks! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Have you tried changing how the keys are set? >>>> 150 objects with the entire local transform set isn't that many curves, >>>> we have had issues but that's with thousands piled up on more thousands. >>>> Lastly, is that with the FCurve editor open or not? >>>> >>>> I suggest you send the scene to Soft if it can be packaged up. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> well its a gear rig so there are a fair but of custom parameters. but >>>>> not an obscene amount. And as far as I know, no parameters driven by ICE. >>>>> although I am using the dual quaternion skinning compound for the >>>>> envelope. >>>>> I've already tested with this removed and it wasnt the issue. >>>>> >>>>> I have tested in 2014 and it is better, by like 30 % but its still >>>>> massively slower than it would be if the model was in Local Mode. >>>>> >>>>> Seeing as how well Softimage's referenced model and Deltas work >>>>> together, it is a major reason we use Softimage here at this studio, I >>>>> would expect the speed of keyframing to be very fast on referenced models, >>>>> it should be just as fast I dare say, otherwise its a massive hit on their >>>>> usability. >>>>> >>>>> I have also tested with other rigs as well, Gear rigs, the malcolm >>>>> rig, and rigs of my own making, its a pretty major speed difference when >>>>> setting and manipulating keys on referenced models vs local models. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As far as how many fcurves. well... A lot, its an entire rig, its >>>>> like 150 objects, and we are keying their entire srt. as the animators are >>>>> currently blocking animation, so they key the entire character at once. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2014 is a bit faster, but not massively so. And we don't have the >>>>> luxury of moving our pipeline to 2014 right now, our tools are written for >>>>> 2013 at the moment and we are going through a major tools development >>>>> phase >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There are two issues, a regression, which Matt does a good job of >>>>>> pointing out and that should be fixed in 2014 (to my knowledge, but >>>>>> haven't >>>>>> tested), and other things we found out when a mix of ICE and custom >>>>>> parameters are involved (which is not related to ICE slow at setting >>>>>> them, >>>>>> which was addressed in 2013 already, I believe). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Jeremie Passerin < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I heard the same thing here, and also heard it's much faster in >>>>>>> 2014. Have you tested that ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 20 May 2013 16:20, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How many custom attributes and specifically some feeding into ICE >>>>>>>> do you have? >>>>>>>> And how many FCurves at a time are we talking about? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We encountered several related issues (and occasionally solved or >>>>>>>> had confirmation of them, and some QFEs that helped a lot) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ivan <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone, please excuse for typos. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 20 May, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hey Ivan, >>>>>>>>> Thank you, Yep I do, I will send it to you in a few minutes, >>>>>>>>> just packaging up the referenced models >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:54 PM, ivan tay <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Enrique, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do you have a scene file for this ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Ivan >>>>>>>>>> Email : [email protected] (please remove nospam from >>>>>>>>>> email) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry this is in softimage 2013 sp1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> I am running into a distressing problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> An animator just came up to me and complained about it being >>>>>>>>>>>> very slow to key their animation. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When they select all of the controls on the rig and drag the >>>>>>>>>>>> keys around or simply set a key there is a fairly major delay. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I just did some testing and verified that it is quite slow. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *I made the referenced model local, and the speed of setting >>>>>>>>>>>> or manipulating keys increased quite dramatically.* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We are using GEAR rigs on this project, which I've never had an >>>>>>>>>>>> issue with before, and I don't really think its gears fault. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>> something I layered ontop. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone run into this problem before? Our pipeline is >>>>>>>>>>>> heavily dependent on referenced models and I have no plans to use >>>>>>>>>>>> local >>>>>>>>>>>> models in our pipeline at all. I'm hoping that its just one little >>>>>>>>>>>> oversight that is causing this. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Enrique >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>>>> it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>> it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it > and let them flee like the dogs they are! >
