HI,
Had an exchange with Enrique. This is a known issue - logged as SOFT-7029 - Key Referenced Parameter Slower. Thanks for bringing this up. -Ivan On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < [email protected]> wrote: > Even with no C++ knowledge you should be able to take different routes > around it, just to see if the bottleneck is specifically in one of the > wrappers or far enough upstream. Give it a shot. > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Enrique Caballero < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks raf and everyone for the advice, its really helpful. >> >> >> I will now reduce their ability to key scaling on the majority of the >> rig. I will also try to code my way around it, problem is I don't know c++ >> so I'm stuck with python which I doubt will be able to save me when it >> comes to slow keying. >> >> >> I did test in 2014 btw, and it is a bit faster, but its still massively >> slow. >> >> I've sent the scene to Autodesk, we still have a year on Subscription so >> hopefully they can send us a QFE >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Sounds like a regression. >>> I've had rigs with controls in the hundreds of objects with quite a few >>> added properties and custom parameters, adding up to packs of thousands of >>> keyframes at a pop. It's never been blazing fast, even with rig-centric >>> dedicated commands, but I would have been skinned alive if it took more >>> than a second or two to key out a couple thousand curves. >>> >>> Consider trying to write your way around it to see how pervasive it is, >>> and if not too far reaching possibly stop them from staring daggers at you. >>> >>> Keying a ref model will always be slower, there's no two ways about it >>> when you have to deal with delta tracking rather than simply adding data >>> somewhere, but shouldn't be in that measure, it should be just a few >>> percentage points at the most. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> the keys are being set just by pressing the K key and the keying mode >>>> set to "Key all Keyable" >>>> >>>> this is the command that gets spit out >>>> >>>> Application.SaveKeyOnKeyable() >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Enrique Caballero < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> thanks guys, >>>>> yep I've already sent the scene to Softimage. Its definitely a >>>>> Softimage 2013 Sp1 issue though and not scene related. >>>>> >>>>> The parameters that the animators can key is already fairly limited as >>>>> I'm pretty careful with keyable parameters. but I will strip down what i >>>>> can for now. >>>>> >>>>> It is slow whether or not the Fcurve editor is open. Basically >>>>> setting a key on a gear rig referenced model with 180 objects takes 6 >>>>> seconds, a local model is instant. >>>>> >>>>> I've stripped down our workgroup to nothing but gear, same problem. >>>>> >>>>> Really quite distressing! The animators are giving me dirty looks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Have you tried changing how the keys are set? >>>>>> 150 objects with the entire local transform set isn't that many >>>>>> curves, we have had issues but that's with thousands piled up on more >>>>>> thousands. >>>>>> Lastly, is that with the FCurve editor open or not? >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggest you send the scene to Soft if it can be packaged up. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> well its a gear rig so there are a fair but of custom parameters. >>>>>>> but not an obscene amount. And as far as I know, no parameters driven by >>>>>>> ICE. although I am using the dual quaternion skinning compound for the >>>>>>> envelope. I've already tested with this removed and it wasnt the issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have tested in 2014 and it is better, by like 30 % but its still >>>>>>> massively slower than it would be if the model was in Local Mode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Seeing as how well Softimage's referenced model and Deltas work >>>>>>> together, it is a major reason we use Softimage here at this studio, I >>>>>>> would expect the speed of keyframing to be very fast on referenced >>>>>>> models, >>>>>>> it should be just as fast I dare say, otherwise its a massive hit on >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> usability. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have also tested with other rigs as well, Gear rigs, the malcolm >>>>>>> rig, and rigs of my own making, its a pretty major speed difference when >>>>>>> setting and manipulating keys on referenced models vs local models. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as how many fcurves. well... A lot, its an entire rig, its >>>>>>> like 150 objects, and we are keying their entire srt. as the animators >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> currently blocking animation, so they key the entire character at once. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2014 is a bit faster, but not massively so. And we don't have the >>>>>>> luxury of moving our pipeline to 2014 right now, our tools are written >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> 2013 at the moment and we are going through a major tools development >>>>>>> phase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are two issues, a regression, which Matt does a good job of >>>>>>>> pointing out and that should be fixed in 2014 (to my knowledge, but >>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>> tested), and other things we found out when a mix of ICE and custom >>>>>>>> parameters are involved (which is not related to ICE slow at setting >>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>> which was addressed in 2013 already, I believe). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Jeremie Passerin < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I heard the same thing here, and also heard it's much faster in >>>>>>>>> 2014. Have you tested that ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 20 May 2013 16:20, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How many custom attributes and specifically some feeding into ICE >>>>>>>>>> do you have? >>>>>>>>>> And how many FCurves at a time are we talking about? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We encountered several related issues (and occasionally solved or >>>>>>>>>> had confirmation of them, and some QFEs that helped a lot) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ivan <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone, please excuse for typos. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 20 May, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey Ivan, >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Yep I do, I will send it to you in a few minutes, >>>>>>>>>>> just packaging up the referenced models >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:54 PM, ivan tay < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Enrique, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a scene file for this ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Ivan >>>>>>>>>>>> Email : [email protected] (please remove nospam >>>>>>>>>>>> from email) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry this is in softimage 2013 sp1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am running into a distressing problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> An animator just came up to me and complained about it being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> very slow to key their animation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When they select all of the controls on the rig and drag the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> keys around or simply set a key there is a fairly major delay. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did some testing and verified that it is quite slow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I made the referenced model local, and the speed of setting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or manipulating keys increased quite dramatically.* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are using GEAR rigs on this project, which I've never had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an issue with before, and I don't really think its gears fault. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something I layered ontop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone run into this problem before? Our pipeline is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavily dependent on referenced models and I have no plans to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use local >>>>>>>>>>>>>> models in our pipeline at all. I'm hoping that its just one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>>>>>>>> oversight that is causing this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Enrique >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>>>> it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >>> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>> >> >> > > > -- > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it > and let them flee like the dogs they are! >
