Good to hear that the issue has been reported. This is a big deal for us here too. We love Softimage referencing system a lot but are in a situation now where animator are creating local copy of the rigs just to work around the issue, which is obviously a big problem for us.
The new team has impressed me with all the bug fix they did on 2014. Seeing very old bug fixed is giving me faith in the new team. Keep up the good work, and I'm crossing my fingers to see that one updated in the next release ;-) On 21 May 2013 05:52, ivan tay <[email protected]> wrote: > HI, > > > Had an exchange with Enrique. This is a known issue - logged as SOFT-7029 > - Key Referenced Parameter Slower. > > Thanks for bringing this up. > > -Ivan > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Even with no C++ knowledge you should be able to take different routes >> around it, just to see if the bottleneck is specifically in one of the >> wrappers or far enough upstream. Give it a shot. >> >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Enrique Caballero < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks raf and everyone for the advice, its really helpful. >>> >>> >>> I will now reduce their ability to key scaling on the majority of the >>> rig. I will also try to code my way around it, problem is I don't know c++ >>> so I'm stuck with python which I doubt will be able to save me when it >>> comes to slow keying. >>> >>> >>> I did test in 2014 btw, and it is a bit faster, but its still massively >>> slow. >>> >>> I've sent the scene to Autodesk, we still have a year on Subscription so >>> hopefully they can send us a QFE >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds like a regression. >>>> I've had rigs with controls in the hundreds of objects with quite a few >>>> added properties and custom parameters, adding up to packs of thousands of >>>> keyframes at a pop. It's never been blazing fast, even with rig-centric >>>> dedicated commands, but I would have been skinned alive if it took more >>>> than a second or two to key out a couple thousand curves. >>>> >>>> Consider trying to write your way around it to see how pervasive it is, >>>> and if not too far reaching possibly stop them from staring daggers at you. >>>> >>>> Keying a ref model will always be slower, there's no two ways about it >>>> when you have to deal with delta tracking rather than simply adding data >>>> somewhere, but shouldn't be in that measure, it should be just a few >>>> percentage points at the most. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> the keys are being set just by pressing the K key and the keying mode >>>>> set to "Key all Keyable" >>>>> >>>>> this is the command that gets spit out >>>>> >>>>> Application.SaveKeyOnKeyable() >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> thanks guys, >>>>>> yep I've already sent the scene to Softimage. Its definitely a >>>>>> Softimage 2013 Sp1 issue though and not scene related. >>>>>> >>>>>> The parameters that the animators can key is already fairly limited >>>>>> as I'm pretty careful with keyable parameters. but I will strip down >>>>>> what i >>>>>> can for now. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is slow whether or not the Fcurve editor is open. Basically >>>>>> setting a key on a gear rig referenced model with 180 objects takes 6 >>>>>> seconds, a local model is instant. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've stripped down our workgroup to nothing but gear, same problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Really quite distressing! The animators are giving me dirty looks! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you tried changing how the keys are set? >>>>>>> 150 objects with the entire local transform set isn't that many >>>>>>> curves, we have had issues but that's with thousands piled up on more >>>>>>> thousands. >>>>>>> Lastly, is that with the FCurve editor open or not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suggest you send the scene to Soft if it can be packaged up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> well its a gear rig so there are a fair but of custom parameters. >>>>>>>> but not an obscene amount. And as far as I know, no parameters driven >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> ICE. although I am using the dual quaternion skinning compound for the >>>>>>>> envelope. I've already tested with this removed and it wasnt the >>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have tested in 2014 and it is better, by like 30 % but its still >>>>>>>> massively slower than it would be if the model was in Local Mode. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Seeing as how well Softimage's referenced model and Deltas work >>>>>>>> together, it is a major reason we use Softimage here at this studio, I >>>>>>>> would expect the speed of keyframing to be very fast on referenced >>>>>>>> models, >>>>>>>> it should be just as fast I dare say, otherwise its a massive hit on >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> usability. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have also tested with other rigs as well, Gear rigs, the malcolm >>>>>>>> rig, and rigs of my own making, its a pretty major speed difference >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> setting and manipulating keys on referenced models vs local models. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As far as how many fcurves. well... A lot, its an entire rig, its >>>>>>>> like 150 objects, and we are keying their entire srt. as the animators >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> currently blocking animation, so they key the entire character at once. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2014 is a bit faster, but not massively so. And we don't have the >>>>>>>> luxury of moving our pipeline to 2014 right now, our tools are written >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> 2013 at the moment and we are going through a major tools development >>>>>>>> phase >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are two issues, a regression, which Matt does a good job of >>>>>>>>> pointing out and that should be fixed in 2014 (to my knowledge, but >>>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>>> tested), and other things we found out when a mix of ICE and custom >>>>>>>>> parameters are involved (which is not related to ICE slow at setting >>>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>>> which was addressed in 2013 already, I believe). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Jeremie Passerin < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I heard the same thing here, and also heard it's much faster in >>>>>>>>>> 2014. Have you tested that ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 20 May 2013 16:20, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> How many custom attributes and specifically some feeding into >>>>>>>>>>> ICE do you have? >>>>>>>>>>> And how many FCurves at a time are we talking about? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We encountered several related issues (and occasionally solved >>>>>>>>>>> or had confirmation of them, and some QFEs that helped a lot) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ivan >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone, please excuse for typos. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 May, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Ivan, >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Yep I do, I will send it to you in a few minutes, >>>>>>>>>>>> just packaging up the referenced models >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:54 PM, ivan tay < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Enrique, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a scene file for this ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ivan >>>>>>>>>>>>> Email : [email protected] (please remove nospam >>>>>>>>>>>>> from email) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry this is in softimage 2013 sp1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am running into a distressing problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An animator just came up to me and complained about it being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very slow to key their animation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When they select all of the controls on the rig and drag the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keys around or simply set a key there is a fairly major delay. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did some testing and verified that it is quite slow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I made the referenced model local, and the speed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting or manipulating keys increased quite dramatically.* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are using GEAR rigs on this project, which I've never had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an issue with before, and I don't really think its gears fault. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something I layered ontop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone run into this problem before? Our pipeline is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavily dependent on referenced models and I have no plans to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models in our pipeline at all. I'm hoping that its just one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oversight that is causing this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Enrique >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>> it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >> > >
