Yet again Jordi, I think we're comparing apples with watermelon's. You and I are members of the same private Houdini Discord server and one of the smartest individuals on that server only graduated a year or so ago (Jake Rice), and he studied motion graphics not VFX.
The core of the broadcast and advertising market is very different to the VFX market (I understand you service this segment at Framestore), in much the same way that FMX is a very different showcase to NAB; it's one of the reasons that C4D and Houdini service very different needs as much as they have commonalities in other areas. And when I speak of SKY and the BBC, I'm talking about the needs of day to day broadcast graphics for news and sport, not small scale VFX to compete with the larger shops such as SKY's failed attempts at Osterley (some very close friends lost their jobs it that fiasco). I work with Grey Worldwide and Publicis Groupe helping them with their internal production facilities and in a completely different creative segment with Atkins, a worldwide architectural practice, who now spend nearly 70% of their visualisation budget on real-time and VR. In all three cases Houdini is part of the production pipeline, but the nature of Houdini use in those pipelines is very different to the stuff you do at Framestore. I'm happy that SideFX have made Houdini more accessible to uses outside of typical VFX pipelines. The work of Luiz Kruel on the real-time shelf over the last 18 months has been outstanding, and I expect similar efforts with motion design over the next 18 months. But that doesn't mean that my architectural client should stop basing the core of the pipeline around Max or that my advertising clients should move from C4D for the core of their 3d output. For all Houdini's power it's fundamentally an operating system for 3d. And for generalist 3d output, Houdini use means that the proverbial wheel has to be reinvented on a daily basis if pipelines aren't staffed by expert TD 'tool makers' (as happens on typical FX pipelines). Budgets are smaller, turnaround times are equally smaller, but client expectations are just as high. This means that more focused tools such as Max and C4D often fit the bill better. But that doesn't stop Houdini being a perfect facilitator for those occasions when Max and C4D comes up short. My clients use Maya to a lesser extent but there are other 3d segments where Maya is a better workhorse than Houdini. None of this means I'm any less of a Houdini champion, it simply means that I'm not a Houdini evangelist. They're two very different things. Equally, my tuppence worth for today. ;) On 3 May 2018 at 14:17, Jordi Bares <[email protected]> wrote: > Is it realistic assuming anyone at all (except someone with a brain the > size of a watermelon ;-) can come out of a 2 year course and command > Houdini in any meaningful way? I don’t think so… let alone their art, C4D > and Houdini. > > In terms of market realities and "in-house teams able to compete”, I am > not sure of that either… we are in times of both, commoditisation and > consolidation, with big companies attracting the very finest talent to the > finest projects and many agencies, production, broadcasters and others > moving into the VFX arena in the hope of a slice of the money they now > spend outside which ultimately will fulfil the simplest projects as scale > is truly challenging and therefore expensive. > > Those guys that are worth their salt will have ambitions to work with the > best, and they will leave to get better project, better money and more > fulfilling careers. > > My 2 cents of today > jb > > PS. BTW, Sky has closed their VFX unit. > > > > On 2 May 2018, at 22:26, Jonathan Moore <[email protected]> wrote: > > Unless there is a major breakthrough in education I doubt a 20 years >> experience Houdini FXTD will have his rates go down… if anything is going >> to be the total opposite. > > > We're already seeing a leveling of the playing field with junior & > middleweight motion designers. A few years back a technical artist with > both C4D and Houdini skills was able to command a good 25-50% premium. > These days it's an expectation of any technical artist hire (that their > skills cover both C4D and Houdini, and for an hourly rate equivalent to > that paid to a purely C4D technical artist a few years back). But that's as > much a case of Houdini education breaking free of FX focused Universities > such as Bournemouth (UK). These days Houdini is included as part of the mix > in some graphic and fine arts based courses such as those on offer via the > various UAL institutions (University of the Arts London). Many young > freelancers touting their trade to motion design shops don't see scripting > or programming as a barrier to creative expression; in many cases, they see > it as a useful catalyst. > > I was only joshing when I spoke about reduced hourly rates, but behind the > sarcasm was a reality of technical skills in the creative marketplace. As > Houdini becomes more accessible to generalists, the worth of specialists is > diluted. It's just the nature of things. I'm not talking FXTD's with 20 > years of experience here, but in-house creative teams at e.g the likes of > Sky or the BBC, will be able to complete projects themselves, without > having to rely on expensive freelance specialists. Generalist isn't a dirty > word in these environments, for some businesses, good quality generalists > are worth much more than specialists (not that they have the budgets to pay > them more). SideFX's efforts has made Houdini more accessible to > generalists to a certain degree, but the reality is that Houdin at the very > least requires a programmatic mindset and ideally decent scripting skills. > > Those at the tail end of their career, that came from a pure fine arts > education are at a definite disadvantage with a technical application like > Houdini. > > Softimage was unique in it's ability to offer both technical and non > technical artists uncompromised capabilities for creative expression. I'm > not certain that another single DCC will come along that offers such > uncompromised abilities to both audiences. And whilst that doesn't impact > larger pipelines too much, I'm conscious that a fair number of people on > this list run independent creative businesses (with 10 or less employees). > In the past a single DCC such as Softimage was all that was needed to be > competitive. These days I don't think a single DCC exists to cater to the > generalist needs of these types of businesses. It's more a case of working > out which pair of DCC's covers you best for the market your targeting. For > some that decision will be based purely on native capabilities, for others > plugin requirements/availability will be a core consideration too. > > On 2 May 2018 at 20:42, Laurence Dodd <[email protected]> wrote: > >> As soon as I started looking at Maya, it just made me sad, but when I >> delved into Houdini i felt quite at home and it always feels like they are >> pushing it forward. >> Also re Maya I never had that "ooh thats a good feature", but with >> Houdini its all the time, I just need to up my coding skills. >> >> On 2 May 2018 at 19:23, Jordi Bares <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> I personally don't ever see Houdini filling the Softimage void. The >>> engineering that powers the Houdini user experience very often requires a >>> totally different mindset for solving the same end goals. I think Houdini >>> fills an ICE void, but the rounded user experience of Softimage is so much >>> harder to fill. >>> >>> >>> I agree the elegant “no-frills" workflow in Softimage is not going to be >>> replicated anytime soon but there have been some truly remarkable efforts >>> to get closer while keeping Houdini true to its procedural roots (which >>> obviously is the right thing to do) >>> >>> Plus I think there are parts of the Houdini community that don't want to >>> see the user experience to become more artist friendly. If Houdini is >>> easier to drive, they might see their hourly rates drop! ;) >>> >>> >>> Unless there is a major breakthrough in education I doubt a 20 years >>> experience Houdini FXTD will have his rates go down… if anything is going >>> to be the total opposite. >>> >>> My 2 cents >>> jb >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 May 2018 at 17:07, Laurence Dodd <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Its something I've been wondering too. I have been learning Houdini for >>>> the last year or more, and I really like it, but I am concerned I'm going >>>> to spend my working days doing vfx sims, which isn't my favourite. Houdini >>>> is still very much shoved into the vfx box. >>>> I dread the thought of being forced into Maya, stick with it and hope >>>> people start using it more generally, or start looking at C4D or something, >>>> eek. >>>> >>>> Laurence >>>> >>>> On 2 May 2018 at 11:56, David Saber <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to know if Houdini is somewhere used as a generalist tool: >>>>> not only simulations and FX but also modelling , texturing, , rigging, >>>>> animation, lighting a scene, etc? >>>>> >>>>> Is there a company that uses Houdini this way? >>>>> >>>>> And if no, do you think a company will use Houdini this way someday? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> ------ Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to >>>>> [email protected] with “unsubscribe” in the >>>>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Laurence Dodd >>>> Porkpie Animation >>>> E: [email protected] >>>> W: www.porkpie.tv >>>> 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BVyMMiOYZeuAjKPPud3XuS3BEunj95gnKZIDskmsRO9Hn1EE3eQIdF3RMz7R6HZw1Qz-2BZr4sDOa-2FXRF9ichlsjmd8fWDCNbLLGD0tEIAyduExXy0VGDBgULfht2qoe-2FSVDsclzrr-2FuBaRRnAQi7Fk1zUbCuMb1EC-2BILgpe8OXxbnjlJZtziEE-2FxxxdLicWEVrXP7Pdqcda4fkbUzfJ1G6kg7ckxmEZ1CBV6MpQHpclZtcXBt6HRdCDSbgZVxwSCt3141Cyt6wllHSYAtApnAZZ0G1srX-2BsCVA0Hh8vJ3Pvfu0ndgEb0B97u4NZv6f-2BaIw5vkwr7Q2jaAoWm-2FV5ZCALEhIViPa5beYeNPwAz162PL04oNi3EoRSyIDYfFcGIoOJCFnM3IdT1yzLeP0vT9-2BDYEc5Iad7xbyCSjrcbJ5mdLLKsVdzyBLIquONmKKTcflwd7fhSABn9xQpw3C5jXuj6e6O7m7pVd5iKsmNS7SGg-2BxJ7Oxiv7KMZ-2FfmS1I11hfh-2BFu8rfPnnjLOHY-2BAM2ZFuWaMVZ1WSYeg4vMTzyk7ydS-2FFPdjaizN9hXDRi2YMC-2F3tuZU-2BGz-2F0miadGDPsgHTfgx8iRekfcCL-2BXJ3WE0XY-2FQVQXja2nczRv5II7-2BoNgCOJiK3KLgtnupAEaxpTBZjvpUqcAIYWjhoAgI1-2BG9jGAkGGr7G4SCN0SL-2BktOdc-2FAxmNXBd-2FzWzITP16SNkfRpRh2zy1RpXkSNH-2BIvDOG2HNDsI23m1zdNcgeFWzZCgMBISuBooHyHIiiAlBpKvwjFJk0ngQl5CmULJAgZKzrL-2Fl2zeJA2AH-2BS0OzrUfxV6lb-2BafvLa3DlmXYHh74rQTgJrbY3cDVhXD7s7ki-2Ftrh1i8GqXa5Ti51PGdOgO7AamJOPJjy-2Bwyt8SiN01v4MDoWe5z5a-2FcOi5X3t-2B2ykawjQyECtZCalJqyRzSuWljAJWTEh-2FVnmSxBUqsCcrANf-2FA2bf6bFHNeR7uEvwSl-2FYJOOtBWktX-2BPbKRvNC-2FH5L4FhXjvWKFnSYXWRrZH-2B0QflyBYdKBNHyVgfMipdA9YRpBuSt3sggocrrJo39osPEC1zl5SAlnm5w51IbJV99kqq-2BK51GPRRkXlnzJeImBYdBlJ4S7ghlSoV1YhmgozCQEtQVehGWGErTo6Os7kKZqmOi-2FzGylFn3wBDQNXqxODST06kJkBUbJq-2BrMRh8UMjPEGtD1bAQn6T0KJl53mJK6GxsHxEezGhQq9h7-2F5qc5fFbgIKQ-2Fk4qzUa5Ipj5iIHLBlQ-2BaTnTKmKAZ6UBrXv-2Fs1LgHA0xrBVNQRr9m7jRm-2BQT3bFNRR13IK1a4PvqaD1sCLJkV9Vx8BAA5qBDznEGcH4uN7a75yOF-2FwCmFZp1XQnRx4txFwHPGK96hKkt9QA4pzTBqbGfcQCljBIhRkrLf5pToUfFNU5XYUT9ip1HrUYDEM17-2FH0BGjeKF9h0lmaiZkI64vH8Xvt-2F7yjr4BLOFnxWz2A0kl0N9wyejM93GazAdLVyL73-2F1BVEoNuZrUQLNtSe4P-2FIDT-2BrSaAK1TtphvHyvltEQSZGBJtlyRosK38oPl9pDkAhhnZUXSnS-2Bo95ohpAiUfznFeN-2FZnmM3dj1cMlwJ6hLu2v6BKvyzwse7xChxkyBhWyBYt9rtEsqD2sNfokDbjO3uLTnbeMM2aw6KHIl4Gf8P-2B43x3WvmgkYipvcH-2FXALIQyiqSYRSpSlUxMAX-2Bi2rW6PRqbRBIgxH6Tljoc9nLd05AXZ2FhgaIFfjhxhmB-2FM-2F5v-2BHmwUJQOnAsnk3KMa6ePA6nvzUnqAdiyL990ozwoPkuJduIv43jogBRx4ubc-2BDLwCX4QKVmmoD-2BOv-2Brme1emS4XPQV4TnWxFbOiKcPST82ky5pgTth5AAhh-2FTV3p0hIt9fWpGAPXLGlUyTm6W7mk19p7ckmALfYaAOMnPSKZezuGBmq2wA4DANBf5Vygv4ZEu50UcI-2BSL9uNs945JR-2BlYYW76ZmXRUQW7-2BAo6wWbBAigPLk7Dg0WwiPmKjfUYHWVLr2ig-2FheQRie7d2WtxpVJEICkG0uqEHHYwTZW-2F8spXSXseI88U33E5ov-2FKf5KYp5z1t-2BgNZB5nZMklXY8ndMilUAv7-2FAjf5q1XtoA3M0a0hiPONC1pa1RAbdLLW0yxLNkILNYlHxzxjJYdbMauhHyVLqZtyNCkXfBcNBcA0nSqGwLKEzj001N2joe7wFbiNzOfj7VUM-2BBETbtruwboRfN2Qak-2BNRxWWkp2CxNExgPoaK0JkdDJts909-2Fa27XoGESGDsgoPtLePohpuxRxxiyKwbYNW3QRg3OvZXoEQX6b5gEZGFJKJn29i0AuCAJUBWgE7CJVmnsYVbFrMeXP8AsG0zM3bdKEOJU7QoetUnB07D04DD9-2FPqHDOxQQZNkBWnRbPQiq1MUa8z2OyHwHEKvuGaWzhm2bKqKtzb957mLilgYuO65csI64UVWHonoNXa6uthkqFQmuMBnmYiO7qHc2rgr3KA-2B8-2BUZGF-2BJDwDou5gOjezTUen6Lwv-2F1hshMuxzl1sstpsNE54X9ivyNRF-2BR2fCVckaHJiEiVRBR5nVlc4WEBN7xXroaXS0jq2RPoxhpiIt18O-2BEmnFeEik-2Fz8i9hsneoXyZiBg8PRkXSdru-2BKSqIk1FQNDUPxC-2FbGeEVZ6Hjurz5M2QE8SSJNnmOdjeYdCZNq2DvM8tMDFMxc8fdDP7OAVgF-2F0OYdiTvchhSLuW-2BbcJ3v1I11LZaARJhysX6ktHBVIdYJ2iL0GTPErCy8PnTcdY6bpsvhH4yHZ1Lzn9fbAnpDfq8X-2BdLNY5JgvQ9DMFKyL56uRaevR1i1OmNjIU97jydK-2Bu69qm-2FsAK3sxmge8N2NnyOTnDWqLaD9y4Z1nOaGJGRd8LYYZfj2dn16GdYtk3QF3nyEYIu0kTbQ1-2FQhQbh-2BaRdixq1nzcmLcX9ixcEIwVWACMB2Y5lq0SVg1BXc5cVm5Q0YJQWoU9UEYcS2T-2BQF7oEHGFGd3ANEwEHTAG2IKWToRCF9rscxem01Qq3Pi-2B5URZ1WwdSaoopH438U4koZ7xyTTQ5x-2BJRCVkMXcTuaODX-2B14nXfN-2B1hbl3gkPWkaKJxYHhIM5Xdna4DC58pWv1vowuwNOGdWaDVe3EGv7uVOzkbZMfMKKDus0F3jsUohpBFnnUxd8GzhJ6uXZVa3-2F8DL71O1wI7jdbN-2Bnl4AFvKqdIthxck8WQDDDU5PRsca1WOdbipOfxfCTnPWjwUAsYafFVI7o-2FhzbXmSIATwZX0Q4CcFqOEsDaoBq0VTeR9dRL3MDsg3c32RJANJyFp2UUCqqvoCPH3UYiUXnLMyRc1txXcCPYtbMh-2B9t-2BsR37lDWZOYPF9MpzfcbjcOVcd7pbXv4cURLRgWaTzHVJlYYRFRE93hTvfpfOlx3Y02jUAyInOb6V3fOVdl-2Ff8odiUCFXcSA9IRgQQ5UxA9UDOJlDyVgNqAeGu9EKpKcl8hRBVAzw5xiU0502i3RSUsFjLVAAzG9ZQNBDpWVyfoFOL29hnfhMBDDo1h1MW-2BixX0FPrPGWg6u4cM2JiBUfhWE3j4MlszhK67fjZH9GpwxO9tlZbdkO-2BEYqpyAgkL4-2BBTBTVxTnAVnhHep3Hwpj-2BSygkNyz8F1tFUgByWQRh1i5snl_8oxW4HKyAHmpsFLR5-2FCi07AjfPcvdujiFz-2FAu1T5li2BpopauYBqXRI489iRYL3-2FVmw5bms-2BSGMC8J-2BxYc3lqIs3y-2Byk0WU3kudgZc5D3Yy9DlBIanpbFtTT8d42cErDFQoi9jmmYh-2FF3VHS6oTKL-2FIhL9DiIl-2BSZrONMPxv2Z3lUoUeEBZEEeFFzyuVnBiOdScWRO3rXRPyx9vcqCcM5r4lrLxnjkEvt1WXvf7Sai0-3D> >>>> M: 07570 702 576 >>>> T: 01273 278 382 >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] with >>>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] with >>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] with >>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Laurence Dodd >> Porkpie Animation >> E: [email protected] >> W: www.porkpie.tv >> <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6iB4H67OtDu1LYz6krlc8-2FqBeLCXrELBQVbfMn71cNywwCM9MLKQNt6NvY2bdnUVgiRuzEw0g0OZUwVhB4KIDvkjTtq34l13Jmfjgwg01isCCK511SfOUct9zBCzgDFFRO-2FaVrThr3vNXUM7RiWhBe-2BeNhsuRVYy8WcsXk6VbpXImEfuRQawGiawr4d49P-2FHnLnlELB9OOSGEp8kBIqiFZxa2fSH2uroog4eQsi5i0iGOvAlBanKasL72X371xL3Z1-2FMAUK-2F1-2Bn7d4-2Fi9jwJGmD-2FXB0QlJXgqMM4kstz-2Fm56HjIsU-2BkoNKiHaHAxbA8n7qCi7fJECJ12MiQJpTrx2jfXGBXF3zfBvDddlR827i4aFwrn2yvXBGGOoEZOMg9hjJ1wpoyeQ1zfNS-2FsdMLrqqKGHus-2F8i29bvjlIZWcWWw5BJzNiECLMIXfZdNXxnembvuSthPD5s7oJgDPzMMcE-2BZ-2Fbg217Tb8pG9IPlJ0oTrGm9nJVBeu69JfgIek17q31gmbNwgkgVb6qlor-2BrN-2BQuNhaoZ2gEES3m7ODvQOvC4Sj-2BAiz4fndxfDUHix2zWmCWxAy8P49brmdoGVhD6Tlwn3ZApS0RUKx-2FkX-2B7tuQvOYQEJDqcaf-2BuYp2DnWjrCLgo2nBPFcfe2zIHd-2FMNwXXg9nWYgul2Kfy4qR6Dnv6OQ51Z9Jhc0I0rxtkG25OsGp0xv23Y8AbuDSMGhFgCSaAtLw2FIOLmKzdp21D3uu-2B5pkg6ItA-2BfBMtkXSPqNYp5OZ6MLvaSLdrddVF2P8Yj-2BhQfJhgJqjAjwzqu5i5qS1c7ln4p8v1k20REXNX9XEJyVSYvjK9YmFsdIEU-2BxPQQyDJ3IoLsqZICwz5hG1VmTlXN2a5EyaScbZ8i4s91rPrqqjfxeaVabAQ-2BHTVFsJ03By3dwi1m-2BO-2FrKsVXz8BCoWf-2Fc8t8n6D-2BFkvwwWH7V-2BdaSb9KRnPbK7SCmbMlz0qRxgqbyGTB-2BDqMPLm88UpMTmDBvCMoi4pT7EXvAjSX7ngrnTWIyCOVKjYW984q7SRv4ULrwKmmF5UAMsjrj2eareSl4BClt3ho-2BNnnUp-2F3c4NMowip-2FH2JHGKa0xbh-2BdwEt4gJGC3hAEZrFwbCoFAEhNGzRR2LUd7tcCJpfFvG2zuoNlBglZx2xA62MwQLugEl7iA-2BVpqf7RuFflQCXE34OLDLiZJbT-2FV1zetKcVMNRP8jcEX2XOuZs4rwsfiDL3YbktsyXwExZ82dpsR-2B5d8CLBRhs6MNDwo8NmqUOwj9MigFzAK-2BHO3y-2FC8OE6Ud12uND-2FD3y4-2FOSGONr0c-2BQ7GYVUvTz2aWop-2BjFJH7WzmukOEOl0aadtpT10YPL-2FPWyeIw8Kh-2FUlm05kKWWXCqrsez9mcZdqqEZ0x1gCRLdrLdpK86y5tSXdmJc3XNCG0dyKOH2JKObpISBAduyiCJwmuhC-2FaRWAq5uYQJ9KK5VSKq-2Bz4EGCn1sJX1MibfmUIONiL-2FWyzfRGkpqwzAKSvnB2o5LFMrRw21fajlYWYl7EnjCKJnZBRwW0ACc8v6TNBxtdF8xDGnNQaSpSYdrfk9Tyc7TrLkt6ItFsz9Uw5WcGJrldjR3EGU1V9T0MOkkb-2BPT1X68MILl5197959Ndn9ig8uf-2BzN8N-2FN-2FtqbCR9y3PPTsRtalHL0U0f68NczWW4-2FEgCqaD3J0nnatu6RFBDH6n4YfF1neSMW-2FAr8Z-2FAFQbtV582zHeEmg9jwFJhi8QaLZiJZTxkG19PvypDQ3xq-2FibIhgu55lPlMp1aGWG9VZ4vop5Dsem5Tg3k9PQy7XkOpC1qvTDIDIxx4fvoo-2Bn0K83msboFUE8Ia273vmZjCamhsIoRWDEAMRUe1ax-2BR9O8Fn2-2BQAcKZhGw-2FmeBNMwkSKrCYwpDdnR0w70MANKyzaxcoMo-2BtvCcoaOJRDsJ6djexXCnDhe5R530AmpRSV0-2BBkfw6PLnI2h4XJZ9UF5SwqR4i-2BJGww2cptthdAw52PenV3jfAAvzbqjCgTU6LUjVJUA0YvYMdgUzHNh9jEeMeC-2BG6G1YXtECwd7lCBooze-2Fvhz1VxR4nm4JUdVYmhIB0BAmoFinQ-2B6DaI9cwhap8MMiAYELHxRlwjuWpZlfzMaTJsrOrXVJ2biBr1veEzKG03LPATi6ECWSmxiZoxqraf5TsBMgFcWLC-2FVohi-2BPEslKy3ropqqGZKDny0GSqySdOR46ctUybzM-2F14dEjzZ7CJvukGPUKinq5NH0E7-2B-2BJXtA8jkdTpfFog-3D_8oxW4HKyAHmpsFLR5-2FCi07AjfPcvdujiFz-2FAu1T5li2BpopauYBqXRI489iRYL3-2FVmw5bms-2BSGMC8J-2BxYc3lqMiUPUzhjTC2-2B-2FkVpzko04aUb4kZi-2BDg4pd0yh3ENseZrFlbJJ6KN8mgFUVE7bkB9QYyHayZCEaRigrNaKWA2wVIoiKwkMnGJPf-2FbQtRoK83qoVxwQrTVbGIX3XHoTw2xIHrKw6-2F-2BRbb-2BFuIbKSPHvQ-3D> 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