Well, from the so many mails below it is clear that
draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-multicast-02 is anything but  multicast
extensions document for DS-Lite.

Anyway we need to put this into the issue tracker as Suresh asked.

Behcet

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Stig Venaas <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> On 7/2/2012 9:00 AM, Jacni Qin wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stig,
>>
>> Inline please,
>>
>> On 6/29/2012 Friday 1:20 AM, Stig Venaas wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 PM, Jacni Qin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Stig,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for you comments and support, please see below inline.
>>>>
>>>> On 6/28/2012 Thursday 4:08 AM, Stig Venaas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, here is my take on this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/27/2012 8:30 AM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a big IF. Not everybody has to do it the same way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The solution in draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-multicast-02
>>>>>> builds itself something without considering what DS-Lite is doing.
>>>>>> As I told you before, DS-Lite unicast is a tunneling technology. If
>>>>>> you don't like it it is not DS-Lite multicast to fix this.
>>>>>> How many times this should be reminded to you?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> draft-ietf-softwire-dslite-multicast-02 is a generic solution, nothing
>>>>> specific to DS-Lite, and I've been saying that the draft should be
>>>>> updated to reflect that.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, even though it is generic, I think it is a good solution for
>>>>> use in DS-Lite deployments (in addition to many other deployments).
>>>>
>>>> As discussed in the previous messages of the thread, our motive is solve
>>>> the problems
>>>> for those who want multicast in their DS-Lite deployment.
>>>> So we limited the scope. Where the DS-Lite is not deployed, it doesn't
>>>> apply.
>>>
>>>
>>> I understand that the motive is to have a solution for DS-Lite, but IMO
>>> the key part is the solution itself. I think you should focus on the
>>> solution and then discuss how it can be used in several scenarios, where
>>> DS-Lite is one of them.
>>
>> Yes, we're focusing on the solution itself, and there is a Problem
>> Statement draft
>> discussing several scenarios during the transition of multicast. ;-)
>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be a shame if people have a need for your solution, but are
>>> not aware of it, or doesn't consider it because they think it only
>>> applies to DS-Lite?
>>>
>>> Don't you agree that we should generally find good generic solutions and
>>> describe them as such? We don't want to write basically identical docs
>>> for each scenario. And in the worst case instead of having a single good
>>> solution, having solutions that are only almost identical, maybe
>>> requiring multiple slightly different implementations to solve each of
>>> the problems, where a single solution and a single implementation would
>>> be sufficient?
>>>
>>> As a general principle when you come up with a solution to a problem,
>>> don't you try to see what else it can solve, and try to present it as
>>> a solution to all the problems? At least that is always my thinking.
>>
>> I totally understand your point and logic.
>>
>> In addition to the motive, based on lessons learnt from what we did for
>> unicast solutions, it's been concluded that working on the scenarios with
>> high priority is a better choice. So we did that following the WG's
>> charter.
>
>
> I think you could make it more generic by changing the title, and
> minor changes to abstract/intro.
>
> You could say that this was designed to allow for multicast in DS-Lite,
> but that it also applies to other cases where you need to provide IPv4
> multicast through an IPv6 multicast network or something like that.
>
>
>> We ever know trying a single solution for all is not a good idea.
>
>
> Yes, but your solution is more useful than just DS-Lite. You have no
> dependency of DS-Lite, right?
>
> Stig
>
>
>> And as mentioned above, I think the draft,
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mboned-v4v6-mcast-ps-00
>> will say clearly about the background, our choices, what led to this,
>> and will
>> help people to analyze their requirements/scenarios, then to find an
>> appropriate solution.
>>
>>>
>>> It looks like we may disagree on this. I'm hoping I can make people see
>>> the merits of making general solutions and presenting them as such. At
>>> least for me, that seems like a good thing to strive for.
>>
>> Ideally, I like general solutions as well. While for transition, as for
>> unicast, I believe
>> we should try another way. :-)
>>
>>>
>>> I know I've been repeating myself several times in emails to the list.
>>> I feel strongly about this as a general principle. I don't know what
>>> more I can say to stress my point though.
>>
>> Thanks for your patience and the discussion anyway, it helps for the
>> clarifications.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jacni
>>
>>>
>>> Stig
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If some pieces of the approach can be reused in the future, to solve the
>>>> multicast issues in
>>>> other deployments, that'd be good.
>>>> While personally, I'd prefer we stay focus on the currently scenario.
>>>> Extensions if needed, may be raised respectively for other deployments.
>>>> More are detailed in,
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mboned-v4v6-mcast-ps-00.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jacni
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether additional solutions are needed for DS-Lite is something the
>>>>> WG should consider. Maybe it already has, I haven't paid enough
>>>>> attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stig
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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