Theo Van Dinter wrote: > Keith C. Ivey wrote: > > That makes some sense, but it's questionable to count the first > > step as an opt-in, since it could come from anyone. > > Well, both the first and second are requests to opt-in.
The first one is not sufficient since it may be a trivial forgery.
This is similar to simple vandalism. But so it is just the same.
I am also the list mom for several email lists and I routinely scrape
out subscription requests where someone is trying to subscribe one
mailing list to another mailing list. I don't doubt the list robot
got a request but I know it did not come from the list. It was using
forged message addresses. Only because it never gets past the
confirmation step does it prevent much more trouble.
I agree with you that this is a "protocol" with multiple steps needed
to complete a single action and marketing folks are usually not
technical enough to understand it that way. But it does not change
things just the same.
> > Regardless, Bob is right that "double opt-in" is a spammer
> > phrase, and it's clearer (and better for one's image) to use
> > "confirmed opt-in".
>
> It's not a spammer phrase, more of a "marketing people" phrase. I work
> at an online media company and have this problem everytime I have to
> talk to the marketing/sales/editorial people.
>
> They have multiple levels:
>
> Opt-In Someone sends you an address to add to the
> list, you do so.
>
> Confirmed Opt-In Someone sends you an address to add to the list,
> you do so, you send a mail to the address
> confirming that they've been opted-in.
Uhem, I *know* you know better and just fat-fingered this one. What
you describe is not "confirmed opt-in". You just described the
"Opt-In" of the first one again. There is no confirmation step in
your description. If I were subscribed that way I would have to
opt-out to get off of the list? Try this description instead.
Confirmed Opt-In Someone sends you an address to add to the list,
you send a mail to the address asking them to
confirm that they've been opted-in, they
confirm this with a response from the
subscription address, you add them to
the list.
> Double Opt-In Someone sends you an address to add to the list.
> You send a mail saying that their address has
> been requested to be opted-in to their list,
> please do X to verify the request. If no X,
> nothing happens. If X, address is added to list,
> you send a mail to the address confirming that
> they've been opted-in.
What you describe there is the same as "confirmed opt-in". But it
just *sounds* so complicated when described that way. Which was my
point. The way you describe it is very important in conveying your
image to others.
> Spammers are basically unscrupulous marketing people mixed with a dash
> of used car salesman. I'm not surprised if they use the same lingo.
Describing spammers like this is an insult to used car salesmen. :-)
Bob
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