Can of worms time.....
Do we design to the Standard (NFPA) or the Code (ICC or other
document adopted by the Jurisdiction)? If the Code modifies the
Standard and adds sprinklers, we would include them without question.
Do we do the same if sprinklers are omitted by the Code?
At 02:38 PM 4/3/2007, you wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult, (I don't think) but if NFPA 13 requires it,
the only correct way to design it is with a head in the pit whether the AHJ
or the EoR show it or require it. Unless the AHJ has some written variance
that has been adopted. It is our responsibility as "layout technicians" to
follow the code.
Am I the only one on the forum that feels that way today? Maybe I should go
fishing or something!
Cliff
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 1:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
I guess I should have worded that a little better but it was almost lunch
time and I was on my way out the door. The majority of the jobs we do the
AHJ does not require a head in the pit for whatever reason. If the Engineer
of Record does not call one out, and they rarely do, then we do not add one,
I do agree though that if there is known combustible hydraulic fluid in the
shaft a head should be installed.
Regards,
Brian Harris
First Defense Fire Protection
Design Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
704.948.3506 phone
704.948.3507 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff
Whitfield
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
Brian,
I'm not sure where you get your info on this but NFPA 13 (02) 8.14.5.1
requires heads in the pit unless that pit meets the requirements of
8.14.5.2.
As Chuck mentioned, nearly all of the hydraulic fluids used for non-cable
operated elevators is combustible. You have to put them in to meet NFPA 13.
What the GC does after that is his business but if he wants you to take it
out, make sure you get written direction to do it and keep it in your files
along with your letter of objection.
Cliff
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
Chuck,
It's 80 and sunny here in North Carolina......
Unless otherwise directed by the AHJ the rule of thumb is no sprinklers
required in the pit, only in the machine room for hydraulic type elevators.
Regards,
Brian Harris
First Defense Fire Protection
Design Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
704.948.3506 phone
704.948.3507 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Haugen,
Charles
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:07 PM
To: [email protected];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA
It's snowing again in Fargo!
I know this has been asked before... I apologize.
I have looked through NFPA 13, '99, '02, and '07 editions regarding
protection in the pit... I've been on the phones w/ A.H.J.'s regarding
their takes on protection... and the war that's waged w/ the Elevator
inspector NOT wanting anything in the pit OR the elev. mech. room. When
asking the elevator installers regarding if they're using
'noncombustible hydraulic fluids' we get the deer in the headlights look
followed by a "...does that even exist?" comment. There has been a time
or two where we have been instructed by the Elev. Inspector to remove
all piping in these areas after the Fire Inspector has been through.
What to do? I recall that there were talks about this during the NFPA
meeting?? Correct?
Chuck
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com
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