you hit the answer on the nose. The point was check the codes. You
can't simply say a residential occupancy can us 13D just because it
is a single dwelling. IBC 903.2.5 is the support for using 13D.
As for the debate about what constitutes a family, one could fall
back on the general "A group of people living together and
functioning as a single household" but I wouldn't. What about all
the implied personal aspects of a HOUSEHOLD. Then there is the
consideration of strangers being housed together by a commercial
company and attempting to call that a family. I'd stick with the
code driven I-1 allowance (which does require the occupants to be
capable of responding to an emergency without assistance) and not
attempt to extrapolate 13D to anything and everything within one
dwelling unit.
There has been some discussion about limiting the allowed size for
13D. I have heard of a house (?) over 200,000 sf protected by 13D.
One would think with that level of cost, a little focus on property
protection would be warranted.
Roland
On Jun 14, 2007, at 9:11 AM, Chris Cahill wrote:
Roland, could you elaborate a bit. On the surface I seem to
disagree with
your statement "Just because it's an R occupancy and one dwelling
unit, that
doesn't make it a one or two family dwelling for which 13D..."
IFC (2000) 903.2.5 says 13D is allowed in I-1's 903.2.9 says 13D is
allowed
in R-4. So even some I's the IFC thinks are acceptable with 13D,
never mind
the R portion. Perhaps something changed in the newer editions?
What Mike describes is one dwelling unit, seems to be within 13D.
No where
in 13D does it suggest what constitutes a family. We all know that
is a
very gray area these days. Unrelated occupants in a single
dwelling still
should be within the scope of 13D. The occupancy is residential in
nature.
No where does it limit the size of a building within 13D, although it
probably should. For me if you start getting past 8-10,000 sq. ft.
you
might start thinking about a higher level of protection. But
that's another
discussion.
Sure is there some discussion about the abilities of the occupant
for self
rescue but that seems to have been decided by 903.2.5 and 903.2.9
based on
the number of people living there not necessarily the abilities.
If based
on abilities any home with young kids (or parents after a few
cocktails on a
Friday night) would not be compliant with 13D.
And hey as humorous justification for 13D just about any place the
Federal
Gov't specifies it for some buildings where there is no city water
supply.
Let's skip most of the building and just put 13D in the office
portion. I
know we all put our faith in the Gov't to do it right.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4921 fax
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: P.O. Box 69
Waverly, MN 55390
Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW
Waverly, MN 55390
---- Roland Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Look at the building code. For instance, an R-4 is for residential
care/assisted living for up to 16 people. Just because it's an R
occupancy and one dwelling unit, that doesn't make it a one or two
family dwelling for which 13D is limited by both its scope and IBC
903.3.1.3.
IS the AHJ saying they are comfortable if YOU choose a 13D system?
Unless blessed by the Building Official, I would think twice about
it.)
Roland
On Jun 13, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Mike Cabral wrote:
Looking at a Goverment Owned Group Home located in Eastern Canada.3
stories 1615 sq ft each floor for a total of 4845 sq ft total. 3
bedrooms in the basement, 3 bedrooms on the second floor 7 bedrooms
on the third floor for a total of 13 bedrooms. One small kitchen,
3.5 bathrooms. 1 large living room 1 small sitting area and a
dinning room.
One stair way to each level. I'ts one dwelling unit I guess. . .
AHJ says it's 13D is he correct. Any thing above the minimum
reccomended here?
Mike Cabral
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