It surprises me at the continuous support that we've grown to show and TEACH one another. I for one have a lot of homework ahead of me with regards to inclusions / exclusions. You've all been instrumental in my learning - for that - "atta-boys" around (and "atta-girl" for Karen).
I like the effect of proposing also that we'll comply w/ NFPA and for an extra sud or case... we'll go above and beyond and drop into the clouds for good measure. Granted - it doesn't affect the calc's - just the labor end... and for what? The slim "chance" that one of these may go off... *Now it's just fighting to allow us to drill through the clouds - that's a whole 'nother hornets nest* First things first... back to the homework... -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Ceiling Clouds throughout Band / Choir Room I always love G's answers, but in this case there is one more question. Did you have the Reflected ceiling plan when you bid? And what did you include in your proposal? To comply with NFPA 13, ???? Did you exclude anything specific, or in any general way, such as "to meet the requirements for LH" Many times if we review our proposals we can find out what we ( or our Salesman/woman ) expected to provide, and what we are obligated to provide by contract. The "Code" is a minimum! I don't think there are any Maximums out there yet, so if you promised more than code, or they required more than code in there RFQ, you may already own providing it. On a personal note: Effective or not we would have included these heads in about every other cloud (12x12), for full coverage below as well as above. They have no effect on pipe size, and a tee becomes a cross, big whoopee. Thom McMahon Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: RE: Ceiling Clouds throughout Band / Choir Room > Wouldn't hurt to point out the dilemma of "it meets the code but the > effectiveness is cut substantially; my contractual obligation is met by > meeting the code; if you would like us to provide protection in excess of > the code and drop heads below the panels, we'll develop a COR for your > consideration. > > Their response, or lack of it, may spare some legal defense costs in the > future; perhaps ensure the future of Rapid Fire as a "going concern". > > One thing is for sure- it would be prudent to have acknowledgement that > a) you met code with just uprights > b) you brought the code vrs reality to the attention > > Believe me when I say you do NOT want to be debating the acceptability of > it, or the code compliance issue, in a courtroom years from now as a > precedent to apportioning % of blame and share of resultant damages. > > We've had incidents where the insurance adjuster, after getting a copy of > our dog and pony letter wherein the owner's rep has signed off > acknowledging > responsibility for the system including ITM and protection of wet system > from freezing, has called us and said "Thanks for making my job easy". > That letter and the dog and pony show has been MANDATORY standard > operating > procedure on EVERY job we do for years. As Russ L says in his #25 seminar, > if you do a lot of work or if you do it for awhile, it's not IF you have a > fire (freezeup, incident) in one of your buildings, its WHEN you have > a.... > > Think of it as legal preventative maintenance. Far easier now than later, > and heck- maybe you'll get a few extra bucks and install a better system > for > the time to write one letter or email. > > Glc > > Ps I believe the wording is CONTROL the fire, vrs suppression mode (ESFR). > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Knight > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Ceiling Clouds throughout Band / Choir Room > > Craig, > I agreed with you on the quantity and closeness of the panels, I was > merely > pointing out the fact that an object is not an obstruction just because it > is 48" wide. It's not an obstruction until it exceeds the 48" threshold. > As far as are sprinklers required; it will depend on the actual layout of > the panels. It may be that there are areas were it would be advisable to > place pendants in the panels, while there may be other areas where this > can > be avoided. This is why I'm not sold either way. The layout will dictate > where sprinklers will be required. As Garth mentioned, I think it was > Garth, the fire sprinklers are designed to contain not suppress the fire. > While we all want to see every fire suppressed, this is not the intent. > It > is an excellent bonus though that most fires are suppressed by sprinklers, > and I agree that we need to be diligent in our designs so as not to create > systems that will be destined to fail. > > Bob K > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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