OK, It seems that it is all based on assumptions.
Is there anybody that made tests to prove assumptions are right, particularly for old piping? I did some tests. In two 15-20 years pipe mains, 6" and 4" pipes, appears to deliver 25%to 30% of the calculated flow with C-100. In a new 600 ft 8" pipe I got pressure loss more than 2 times the calculated value. The pipe was flushed several times with a flow of 1600 gpm. Yesterday, I got 40% loss of pressure over a service connection. This appears to be normal. I already use this as a rule of thumb. Dan Dan Arbel Tel: 972-4-8243337 Fax: 972-4-8243278 M: 972-52-2810593 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: C-Factor for old piping That is my understanding and that we use C100 for dry systems because they are more prone to quicker deterioration. This is a prescriptive method of accounting for degradation over the life of the system. If we are then inspecting per the prescriptive document NFPA 25 we will be visually inspecting for unusual deterioration every five years. These values and frequencies have been determined by the committees (ergo professionals) to meet a minimum standard of care relative to an acceptable level of risk. If someone responsible for a system (owner, AHJ, Doris the Lunch Lady) determines that a greater risk exists than these values and frequencies address then a more stringent set of criteria can be set up. A great example is NFPA 96 (...Ventilation...(for)...Commercial Cooking....) wherein cleaning frequencies are determined by inspection and inspection frequencies are determined by the type and amount of cooking done. There's also an annex entry that states that if the prescribed inspection frequencies suggest that more frequent inspections or cleanings are determined to be needed then that should be considered. On Feb 13, 2008 6:50 AM, Matthew J. Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Isn't C for new steel 150. We use 120 to "semi"-account for degradation. If > the pipe is flushed IAW 25, and all the stuff done that is SUPPOSED to be > done, then you should have a good idea on internal condition. As Scot said, > the end resulting flow is the final indication of pipe condition. > > R// > Matt > > Matthew J. Willis > Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. > 1160 McKenzie Rd. > PO Box 877 > Cantonment, FL. 32533 > 850-937-1850 Voice > 850-937-1852 Facsimile > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----- >-----Original Message----- > ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > ----- >Behalf Of å... .... > ----- >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:34 AM > ----- >To: [email protected] > ----- >Subject: C-Factor for old piping > ----- > > ----- >i may not be following your point, > > ----- >but if you are concerned that the actual C-factor of old > ----- >UG pipe is less than the idealized C-factor > ----- > > ----- >what does it matter > ----- >as long as you take your source where ever your gauge hydrant is? > ----- > > ----- >the waterflow test will account for any aging in the > ----- >pipes, automatically. > ----- > > ----- >it is another thing, > ----- >to extend this thinking, > ----- >downstream of the > ----- >guage hydrant though. > ----- >There you will need > ----- >professional judgement > ----- >to bring > ----- >value engineering. > ----- > > ----- >scot deal > ----- >excelsior fire > ----- > > ----- > > ----- > > ----- >On Feb 13, 2008 1:19 PM, danarbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ----- > > ----- >> > ----- >> > ----- >> According to 22.4.4.7 Friction Loss, The C-Factor used > ----- >for black steel > ----- >> pipe is 120. > ----- >> > ----- >> My question is: > ----- >> > ----- >> In case of using old pipe system Mains for water > ----- >supply of sprinkler > ----- >> system, > ----- >> > ----- >> > ----- >> Is there in the code any requirement to find out by > ----- >actual testing > ----- >> that the piping determined as adequate by the > ----- >hydraulic calc procedure > ----- >> is indeed adequate? > ----- >> > ----- >> Thanks > ----- >> > ----- >> > ----- >> Dan Arbel > ----- >> Tel: 972-4-8243337 > ----- >> Fax: 972-4-8243278 > ----- >> M: 972-52-2810593 > ----- >> > ----- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > ----- >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > ----- >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - > ----- >Release Date: > ----- >> 12/02/2008 > ----- >> 15:20 > ----- >> > ----- >> > ----- >> _______________________________________________ > ----- >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > ----- >> [email protected] > ----- >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > ----- >> > ----- >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > ----- >> to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > ----- >> > ----- >_______________________________________________ > ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list > ----- >[email protected] > ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > ----- > > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email > ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 12/02/2008 15:20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 12/02/2008 15:20 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
