Yeah, that's why I brought this up; I see it all the time too... I figured there must be a code I was overlooking. It would be good to know. Take care, -Brian Greg McGahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Right, but I can not count the sidewalls I have seen poking out under decks in 13 applications.
Thank you, Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 11:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's Greg, It looks like the residential use of HSW for open framed patios is acceptable under IBC 903.3.1.2.1. However, NFPA #13 systems are a different matter and after searching the IBC I see no reference allowing them unless the framing is sheathed - which I think started in the '06 ed. of IBC since I can't find it in the '03. Cliff, Darcy calcs are only required if you're system is greater than 40 gallons. Anything bigger than that should probably be a dry system anyway. :-) -B- Cliff Whitfield wrote: Another problem with going AF is now we have to use Darcy Weisbach for calculations which then opens an additional can of worms. Cliff -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's Correct me if I am wrong, but if the sidewalls are not acceptable under a small deck, etc. then the only options are antifreeze or dry systems with upright sprinklers? I understand what you are saying but in practical fact; is it worth it? If we go antifreeze, we can stay within the residential boundaries, but going dry opens other issues. Can we get the manufacturers to test and list a dry sidewall head for these uses? Thank you, Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's There are two issues with a sprinkler. Those are sensitivity and distribution. The sidewall sprinklers must be tested to insure that they provide the appropriate sensitivity and distribution in distribution tests (RDD & ADD) as well as sensitivity tests and fire tests. I would not think that having a fire official just deciding one was better than the other is a really good idea. That smacks of the fire inspector saying he wants something done just because "he wants it that way". Mike Brown -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's There seems to be a consensus among the inspector's I know that the sidewall is better than a pendent in many cases because of the spray pattern. Would there be a significant difference in the time it takes to fuse the two different types of heads? Thank you, Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's Check The International Building Code which requires sprinklers protecting some decks and in that section the IBC allows deviations from NFPA 13 or the sprinkler listing. Maybe some bleed over into exterior canopies. Mike Brown -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's I'm noticing a lot of small exterior canopies being protected with dry horizontal sidewall sprinklers even though it is open framing (usually 2X6's or 2X10's at 24" o/c) without any type of material fastened to the underside of this framing - which is all good and well since it mostly complies with NFPA #13 '07 ed section 8.4.2 except that it's not 'SMOOTH.' So I guess that's my question, they aren't smooth so how are people getting away with this? Smooth being defined as sructural members being spaced more than 7'-6" o/c. per A3.7.2. The only thing I can come up with is A8.15.7 where you can install a *pendant* at a 45 degree angle to protect small unheated areas so if it's okay for a pendant why not a HSW? (I'm sure it has to do with the intracacies of unfamiliar testing and listing requirements of a pendant over a hsw???) Any thoughts? Thx, -B- Below are the sections talked about: NFPA #13 2007 ED. 8.4.2 Sidewall Spray Sprinklers. Sidewall sprinklers shall only be installed as follows: (1) Light hazard occupancies with smooth, horizontal or sloped, flat ceilings (2) Ordinary hazard occupancies with smooth, flat ceilings where specifically listed for such use (3) To protect areas below overhead doors A.8.15.7 Small loading docks, covered platforms, ducts, or similar small unheated areas can be protected by dry-pendent sprinklers extending through the wall from wet sprinkler piping in an adjacent heated area. Where protecting covered platforms, loading docks, and similar areas, a dry pendent sprinkler should extend down at a 45 degree angle. The width of the area to be protected should not exceed 7½ ft (2.3 m). Sprinklers should be spaced not over 12 ft (3.7 m) apart. (See Figure A.8.15.7.) A.3.7.2 (3) Smooth Ceiling Construction. The term smooth ceiling construction as used in this standard includes the following: (a) Flat slab, pan-type reinforced concrete (b) Continuous smooth bays formed by wood, concrete, or steel beams spaced more than 7½ ft (2.3 m) on centers - beams supported by columns, girders, or trusses (c) Smooth roof or floor decks supported directly on girders or trusses spaced more than 7½ ft (2.3 m) on center (d) Smooth monolithic ceilings of at least ¾ in. (19 mm) of plaster on metal lath or a combination of materials of equivalent fire-resistive rating attached to the underside of wood joists, wood trusses, and bar joists (e) Open-web-type steel beams, regardless of spacing (f) Smooth shell-type roofs, such as folded plates, hyperbolic paraboloids, saddles, domes, and long barrel shells (g) Suspended ceilings of combustible or noncombustible construction (h) Smooth monolithic ceilings with fire resistance less than that specified under item (d) and attached to the underside of wood joists, wood trusses, and bar joists --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! 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