Re: Horizontal Exits

Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:13:10 -0700

It does not sound like it's a fire WALL but a fire BARRIER as required for exit passageways and also subdividing the fire area within ONE building. Proceeding cautiously (translation is that I don't have 100% confidence in this statement since it was the Flintstone age when I dealt with these issues), I don't see anything in the codes that drives you to dividing your zones by fire barriers.
For instance, you could use a fire barrier to divide a 20,000 sf storage facility into two fire areas and not have to install sprinklers. BUt if you had an overall 30,000 sf building and even if divided by said barrier, the building would have to have sprinklers. Would this 30,000 storage facility require 2 separate zones? I don't think so but then again I once thought I had a winning lotto ticket when the first 5 numbers hit. In my haste to respond have I overlooked anything? 

Roland

On Mar 10, 2008, at 11:50 AM, A.P.Silva wrote:


It is a two hour concrete block firewall. There is a fire rated  
door in the

corridor, which will constitute the horizontal exit. Hose stations are

provided on both sides. Are separate zones being provided by others  
for
similar buildings? I know I will have to follow my building code,  
but what

is the industry practice?

Thanks,

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: March 10, 2008 7:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Horizontal Exits


IS it a firewall or a rated partition?  A firewall can often be  
identified

by what looks like two walls butted together since they have to remain

standing with structural collapse on either side(kinda like seismic  
joints
for structural steel).  Haven't looked closely lately at the  
penetration
allowance but you shouldn't be seeing doorways.  Must confess, I  
haven't
focused on construction issues in a long time but such basic  
tenants should

be the same as in my Flintstone days.

If it is a firewall, each has a separate floor area because they are

separate buildings with common walls.  So, are separate zones  
required in

separate buildings?


Just because the owner/GC is using an accelerated design as you go  
format

doesn't mean the the architect/engineer of record are exempt from such
trivial issues.

Roland

On Mar 8, 2008, at 11:00 AM, A.P.Silva wrote:


I have another question related to this issue.


A four storey residential buiding, having 30,000 sq.ft. building  
area,

has two firewalls, splitting it to 3 compartments. The City is saying
each compartment (approx. 10,000 sq.ft.) needs a separate zone.

As per building code:

The annunciator shall have separate zone indication of the actuation
of the alarm initiating devices in each "floor area" so that the area

of coverage for each zone is neither (a) more than one storey, nor  
(b)

more than the system area limits as specified in NFPA 13.

"Floor area" is defined as any space between the exterior walls and
any required fire walls.

I'm saying the zone indicatipon must be obtained by another alarm
initiating device. Not sprinkler flow switch. The problem is the

building code also permits deletion of heat detectors, if the  
building

is sprinklered.
So that
leaves only manual pull stations and sprinklers.

I know to reply, the applicable building code has to reviewed in its
entirety. But most building codes are similar. My question is, are
there any other jurisdiction that would require sprinkler zoning for
each compartment?

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie
Seidl
Sent: March 7, 2008 3:02 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Re: Horizontal Exits

Yup in the NC 2006 IBC we have that same exception.

----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
<[email protected]>
Sent: Fri Mar 07 16:58:39 2008
Subject: RE: Horizontal Exits

What Jamie said.  An exit through a fire-rated separation; the reason
for Class I connections on both sides is that one side is presumed to
be separated and safe from the fire on the other.


Remember though, that if you are considering said connections  
based on

prescriptive code requirements, you should check out whether there's
an exception your state's adopted version of the IBC, section 905.4
(Location of Class I standpipe hose connections.  The new California
version, based on

2006 includes the following for location of connections, which I  
think

is straight IBC without amendments:

905.4.2 On each side of the wall adjacent to the exit opening of a
horizontal exit.

Exception:  Where floor areas adjacent to a horizontal exit are

reachable from exit stairway hose connections by a 30-foot hose  
stream

from a nozzle attached to 100 feet of hose, a hose connection shall
not be required at the horizontal exit.


Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie
Seidl
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Horizontal Exits

Chap 10 of the 2003 IBC.
Exit, Horizontal.  A path of egress travel from one building to an

area in another building on approximately the same level, or a  
path of

egress travel through or around a wall or partition to an area on
approximately the same level in the same building, which affords
safety from fire and smoke from the area of incidence and areas
communicating therewith.

(Think 2 hr fire walls, double doors in corridors with magnetic
holders).

Jamie Seidl

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of  
Richard

Battershell
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Horizontal Exits


Class I standpipes as per NFPA 14 7.3.2 (2)2004 ed. requires hose

connections be provided "On each side of the wall adjacent to the  
exit

openings of horizontal exits".  What constitutes a horizontal exit?

Thanks for the help.


Richard Battershell





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