Roland This will get you going---As usual the engineer does not want to do anything but get paid.
Just write in the spec: ["Sprinkler System as per NFPA 13 and all materials and design shall meet UL and FM Approvals. Contractor shall meet all state and local codes. Contractor shall determine the water supply and all drawings are schematic and the co-ordination and/or anything else required is to be the responsibility of the contractor."] Have a good day! Michael L. Brown Manager of Technical Services The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company, Inc.' [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.reliablesprinkler.com (864) 843-5228 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:59 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: engineering decisions Mike: You need to update (that is reduce) your list. First expand item 2 to identify the engineer needs to determine IF The water supply is adequate. I've never understood how an AE team can provide room for a pump and it's associated infrastructure if they don't know one is needed until a subcontractor tells them. Now break out the chain saw. The Third item is definitely to be thrown out. How can the EOR identify where the remote area is unless they are drawing lines and circles? Keep cutting and throw out item 4. The AHJ blesses the plans and do you really want a third party slowing you down for coordination? Although the engineering job assurance plan has this one listed, it is a contractual thing can implement IF the owner wants it but not a valid requirement. The exception to this statement are when BUILDINGS are designed on a performance basis that requires specific sprinkler criteria (that can exceed 13). Roland On Apr 24, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) wrote: > Actually, in several counties around Atlanta, the test was also > required for garden style apartments up to four stories. You would > be surprised that, at least in the beginning, a number of projects > that had full blown hydraulic calculations failed when the bucket > test showed them to be incorrect. Many times the main culprit was > a water test supplied by the water company that was faulty or not > up to date. Which brings me to my point that I have made over the > years, the "design" of sprinkler systems really involves four major > decisions by the design engineer and the rest is mostly a layout of > a system within the rules of the codes. > > First Engineering Decision: What is the hazard and what > densities are required. The project must be classified as per the > fire risk. What are you protecting and how much water will it > require to achieve the fire protection objective. > > Second Engineering Decision: What is the water supply and has > there been a detailed analysis and testing of the water supply? > Generally, engineers and others rely on water tests provide by > others and sometimes incorrect and out of date. Often very little > time is devoted by the engineer to insure that an adequate water > supply at the needed pressure is available. This does not mean > just throwing in a large fire pump just to be safe. > > Third Engineering Decision: Where is the remote area? It is easy > to just let the designer decide but the selection of the remote > area can change the hydraulics dramatically. > > Fourth Engineering Decision: Coordination and review of the plans. > The shop drawings and calculations may be checked and the > coordination with the other trades on the project. Often, the > engineer just passes these functions to a trainee or someone else > within the engineering firm. In other cases the issue is just ignored. > > Too often these decisions are not given the time and effort that > they deserve. > > > Michael L. Brown > Manager of Technical Services > The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company, Inc.' > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.reliablesprinkler.com > (864) 843-5228 > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
