Which brings up a little twist to think about. Just because the powers that
be approve or accept something that is normally not compliant with the code
doesn't mean it shields you from liabilities that may arise out of not
complying with the code.
For example if a building requires per code a .6/2000 but the water isn't
there and the AHJ approves a .3/1500 you most likely have assumed complete
cost for the building and contents if there was ever a loss. Now I doubt
you had that in your estimate. It's not hard and fast and design
professionals that spec the wrong density become your best friends. Too
often we contracts are operating outside the safe area.
In your case if you don't put a head through the glass as I understand it
you are buying any problems that arise out of the head not being there
because no one can come up with a code reason that exempts the location.
Well Thom has an idea on filling the space with non-combustibles. Doesn't
matter if the AHJ accepts it. With an equivalency you may have some more
protection but unless you have a PE on board you are probably running afoul
of other laws. Of course I can't think of an equivalency off the top of my
head either.
Just an issue that comes up on the forum from time to time that doesn't get
talked about much on the forum.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4921 fax
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: P.O. Box 69
Waverly, MN 55390
Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW
Waverly, MN 55390
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RFI -
Bismarck
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Entry Vestibule situation...
Thanks all...
Justin pin-pointed it. It's a glass enclosure with concrete walls, ceiling,
and floor protruding 'out'. I'm looking strictly as a combustible area -
nothing combustible about it...
I have a meeting today w/ the powers that be to determine the fate of this
space. Thanks for the info of ammunition to present!
RFP C
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Reid
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Entry Vestibule situation...
Sounds like this is the entry to the building and is all glass (which is
probably giving the access issues). You may be able to apply for an
exception based on the argument that the vestibule is a circulation
pathway and therefore will not likely contain combustibles. Otherwise,
the architect needs to provide a means to conceal the pipe or they will
have to accept exposed pipe.
Let the design team know that there is no guarantee the sprinkler can be
omitted from the space and that they should begin planning to
accommodate the sprinkler head. Then meet with the AHJ and state the
case.
Regards,
Justin D. Reid, P.E.
Project Engineer
RLH Fire Protection
468 N. Camden Dr. #290L
Beverly Hills, CA 90210
Office: (310) 601-3013
Cell: (213) 798-0251
Fax: (866) 871-2237
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron
Greenman
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Entry Vestibule situation...
Why would "access" to a "small entry vestibule" be "close to
impossible?" Seems that an "entry vestibule" would be the one thing
most accessible. Question aside, if there is access then the space
space is not concealed, and even if non-combustible, requires
sprinklering. I just had an ME argue that if you put "Authorized
Personnel Only" signs on locked doors then the space behind that door
was concealed. He got an Honorable Mention for stupid but creative
try. Tis was in a jurisdiction where I'm told that the Building
Official holds the Fire Marshal in high regard because of the latter's
"creativity" in finding ways to avoid sprinklers by "clever"
interpretations of the code.
2008/7/16 RFI - Bismarck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> Forum...
>
> Have a building with a situation that I need help in addressing -
small
> entry vestibule (14'8" x 7') which has glass exterior and interior
doors and
> windows - full height; with concrete walls, floor, and ceiling
enclosing it.
> Access to this area is close to impossible... Is there anything in
NFPA that
> I'm missing which would allow me to exclude this area?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> RFP Chuck
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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7/16/2008
> 6:43 AM
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>
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--
Ron Greenman
at home....
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