Here's where my friends Steve, George and Ryan and I disagree a bit. I'll rephrase - Never mind raising eyebrows, how is the PLUMBING industry going to find the thousands of design tech's and literally dozens of thousands of installers necessary to serve this market?
It's all manpower (FP/P labels aren't important). Are you telling us the plumbers all these years are sitting around with extra people? That doesn't make business sense. They have exactly the correct number of people they need to do the work they are doing now. Just like we do. If it's work increase for us it's work increase for them. "both conventional and MP systems - regardless of licensing or code or jurisdictional variables. BECAUSE IT MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE. And who's to stop them?" Is the argument they are allowed to not follow the law? If no one can stop them why is there the inference we can be stopped. "Homebuilders will appreciate the one-stop shopping" So are you telling me they would appreciate if I expand into the siding market, roofing market and electrical market even if I have no knowledge of those fields? That would be a couple less subs. Or are you saying the homebuilders have reached their maximum capacity to deal with one more sub over the 20 plus they are already dealing with? "it's not rocket science." Yep I agree and if it ain't rocket science for plumbers are you saying it is for us? Seems to me it's wouldn't be rocket science for us either. Dave A. Said "Check the annex, and look at the "Calculation Sheet". Like someone said, it's not rocket science." So a sprinkler contractor must do a plan and HW calc but a homeowner or plumber can use the annex? Now I know that's not what anyone actually said but that's what I took from the total comments. I believe what one should take from this is the annex is for us too. Now the biggest obstacle I see to anyone doing annex calc's are the AHJ's present company excluded. I agree economics will be the answer. I have full faith in the market to solve who is going to do this work. But first we will need to ensure through the gov't those practicing in a life safety field are qualified. Only then will economics be the driver. We are in the life safety field and plumbers are in the same field. We just have specialized in different areas. We fire suppression, they potable water and sanitary waste. If I get 350 houses to do next year I guarantee you I can find 6-7 people to do this work even if we were working like we were a few years ago. Budgeting a man-week per house. The labor market grows daily. Don't tell me the burger flippers and cashiers won't move for a buck an hour more. The labor market bottomed out at just under 5% unemployment. 10,000 fitters or whatever we call them wouldn't make a dent in the unemployment rate. Don't tell me there aren't many fully capable of glueing plastic together. IMHO putting in the sprinkler system in a house is easier than the plumbing system so saying the plumbers are cheaper is fine but a they are still over paid for the fire sprinkler portion. I'm assuming good PM and designer in shop. I see day one a few fitters going out on there own to specialize in this work. I see a few smaller sprinkler companies dropping the steel work. I see large sprinkler companies developing residential shops. I see union shops using the lower wages of residential fitters already in the contracts and I see the non-union shops hiring lower paid counter parts to their existing fitters that just do residential. We don't have to pay for the learning curve the plumbers will have. Our changes are minor compared to the plumbers. They need to find PM's and designers that can spell fire sprinkler (not unlike the PE profession), they will need to secure suppliers, they will need to learn basic hydraulics (HW or annex), they will need to learn 13D. We already have this infrastructure in place just needs to grow a bit not start from scratch. They may catch us and pass us, time will tell. But day one they aren't prep'ping any more than we are. On day one I need to hang a hiring shingle for one PM that I can teach to spell fire sprinkler, 6 laborers and make 2 phone calls to get a few heads, pipe and appurtenances. I am ready. And if I get 700 I leave the shingle up for a second day is the only difference. I hope to know all you years from now to see how this plays out. But I guess that's what Facebook is for. I don't know for sure how this will turn out but I will not concede to the plumbers before the skirmish starts in earnest. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential systems in California Never mind raising eyebrows, how is our industry going to find the thousands of design tech's and literally dozens of thousands of installers necessary to serve this market? Plumbing contractors are going to start doing this work- both conventional and MP systems - regardless of licensing or code or jurisdictional variables. BECAUSE IT MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE. And who's to stop them? Homebuilders will appreciate the one-stop shopping and many plumbing contractors already have design departments. I've said this dozens of times already in this forum but I'll say it again - it's not rocket science. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential systems in California For the sprinkler contractors who don't hold a plumbing license: if there is no BFP, then the entire sprinkler system is potable. That's work you no longer have access to. Does that raise any eyebrows? Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > "To address the issue of backflow prevention, one discussion the > committee is having is the viability of placing a toilet on the > hydraulic end of the sprinkler system ..." > > Great. Now I have to learn to install toilets. Will this function as the > inspectors test too? Won't the alarm sound whenever you flush? _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3869 (20090219) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3873 (20090220) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
