In industrial facilities the fork truck battery charging area is generally considered an ancillary use area and is classified by bldg code the same as the surrounding areas. The areas are not intended for storage of any kind. If the bldg is fully sprinklered than so is the battery charging area, but there are times when the facility is an F-2 for example and there are no sprinklers anywhere, then the battery room is not sprinklered because it is considered the same occupancy as the adjoining area. Battery charging rooms have code driven requirements for electrical, ventilation and other issues that as the sprinkler guy, you don't need to worry about.
These are typically not storage areas of batteries, and there is no requirement anywhere to treat it as such. Now there's nothing stopping anyone from going over the top and putting in an ESFR system for Group A plastics if you so desire. It's just overkill. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Commodity Question I'm inclined to not consider these necessarily as stored batteries. But what is the potential explosive danger from off-gassing while recharging. Large battery rooms with lead acid batteries that can "breathe" and without special ventilation can be a problem of their own. I'm not too interested this morning in searching through books for free but you might want to take a walk down that path. On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:10 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > Matt- > Is it really considered storage just because they are in there charging the > batteries? What's to say that if the forklifts are parked out in the > warehouse that the entire warehouse shouldn't be designed for Group A > plastics? That's the problem I'm having in my own feeble little mind.... > > Brian Harris > FDFP Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew J. > Willis > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Commodity Question > > > From the table in 13: > > b Most batteries have a polypropylene case and, if stored empty, should be > treated as a Group A plastic. Truck batteries, even where filled, should be > considered a Group A plastic because of their thicker walls. > > > NFPA 505 Section 9.3 states there is to be "Fire Protection" > > Maybe some of the more "electrical" minded can provide more from 70..? > > R/ > Matt > > > > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > Automatic Fire Sprinklers > Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > 318-387-1134 Voice > 318-816-1087 Mobile > 318-387-1163 Facsimile > [email protected] > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- >> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:39 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question >> > >> >Craig- >> >I would definitely say they are truck size (or larger) that's why I was >> >leaning towards Group A. It just seems like overkill, I can't imagine >> >there >> >would be more than 5 or 10 in there at the most. Would you think the >> >"charging" would create any additional concerns? I.e.: Gases... >> > >> >Brian Harris >> >FDFP Inc. >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> >[email protected] >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question >> > >> >Are the batteries standard car size or larger truck size? >> > >> >Look at NFPA 13, Table A.5.6.3, filled automobile batteries believe it or >> >not are considered a Class I commodity while truck batteries are >> >considered >> >Group A plastics. >> > >> >How many batteries are in the location, what size would you consider them >> >to >> >be, auto or truck? >> > >> >Consider that in an automotive store that car batteries are on racks in >> >fairly appreciable quantities and nothing extra ordinary is done to the >> >overhead sprinkler systems in those areas. >> > >> >Apparently someone with more letters after their name than you and I has >> >determined that a water filled CAR battery is not a huge hazard. >> > >> > >> > >> >Craig L. Prahl, CET >> >Fire Protection Specialist >> >Mechanical Department >> >CH2MHILL >> >Lockwood Greene >> >1500 International Drive >> >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> >Direct - 864.599.4102 >> >Fax - 864.599.8439 >> >[email protected] >> >http://www.ch2m.com >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >> >Harris >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:08 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question >> > >> >Craig- >> >I'm leaning towards Group A Plastics because of the batteries but don't >> >want >> >to overkill it either. >> > >> >Brian Harris >> >FDFP Inc. >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> >[email protected] >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:01 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question >> > >> >Brian, >> > >> >I don't want this to come off as a smart retort, but if you look in NFPA >> >13, >> >what is your first inclination as far as a protection scheme? >> > >> > >> >Craig L. Prahl, CET >> >Fire Protection Specialist >> >Mechanical Department >> >CH2MHILL >> >Lockwood Greene >> >1500 International Drive >> >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> >Direct - 864.599.4102 >> >Fax - 864.599.8439 >> >[email protected] >> >http://www.ch2m.com >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >> >Harris >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:33 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: Commodity Question >> > >> >I have an ESFR Warehouse that has a 1600 sq.ft. room that is used for >> >charging the forklift batteries, what should this room be designed to? >> > >> > >> > >> >Thanks, >> > >> >Brian Harris >> > >> >First Defense Fire Protection >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3108 - Release Date: 09/08/10 >> >12:41:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
