Tom: Is the outside hopper a cyclone collector? Sounds like it might be. I worked on a bindery fire a few years back where the scrap collection system carried the trimmings to a cyclone collector that also had a bag house on top. The heavier paper trimmings dropped to the bottom of the cyclone and the dusty air filtered through the bags (long tubes of cloth). Periodically, a shaker mechanism agitated the bags and shook the dust cake off, which dropped into the bottom of the cyclone. In addition to carrying paper trimmings, it also carried staples, other stray metal pieces and stray cigarets. Don't know if we ever figured out what caused a fire in the collector (scrap metal sparking in the ductwork, or employee's cigaret in the collector), but when the shaker operated, a dust explosion blew the collector apart. Sprinklers would not have helped that scenario. This sounds like one that you may want to step away from, or study a lot about the system before you commit to any plan. Dave
David A. de Vries, P.E., CSP Firetech Engineering Incorporated --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Chris Cahill <[email protected]> wrote: From: Chris Cahill <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Book binding Facility To: [email protected] Date: Monday, September 20, 2010, 4:02 PM Sounds more like a woodworking dust collection system to me with a larger variety of sizes of 'dust'. It's common enough to provide duct detection suppression systems to prevent a hot spot from getting to the hopper and sprinkler(s) in the hopper (usually anti-freeze). I'm sure you know this already. I actually think there is language in the IFC/IMC (and MN amendments) (I don't have any of the above) addressing ducts that carry combustibles. Enclosing and putting in SW will have marginal effects as I'm assuming the hopper is closed. Don't spend the money on the enclosure and put it into good sprinklers/suppression. And when things go wrong even when suppressed the smoke goes to the sky instead of into the building. Building additions may open another can of code worms. Oh and recommend a FPE, in writing, as the insurer this year isn't qualified to address things like this legally or for the next insurer. As an aside I wonder how the insurance industry allows their people to make recommendations that are subject to possible failure, causing subrogation within a company(?) and amount to legal engineering without an engineer often times. And yes in your proposal state you have not dreamed this up, you have no opinion on whether it will work or not. I've actually stated in proposals what we were asked to do would not be effective, didn't mince words. Chris Cahill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Duross Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 3:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Book binding Facility Got a call this morning and took a tour of a book binding facility that had a fire. It's a fairly large (60K SF +/-) plant with 2 dry systems, tapered steel beam, purlin construction, insulated and heated, 20' ceilings. It has a paper collection system running from about 20 of these stitchers and binders that exits the building to a hopper with the blowers next to it. The fire occurred in the hopper, outside the building but melt and deformed the purlin steel wall pretty good. Apparently, the sprinkler system never tripped. I was given a letter from their insurer suggesting when they replace the blowers and repair the hopper, then enclose them in exterior rooms and protect the spaces with dry sidewall heads from the overhead system. Has anyone ever done this? I walked around and talked to the workers there about how things work, what does what, etc.; they're still working without the functioning collection system, not happy about it, but it's work. They tell me the exhaust collection system can have anything from small particles from the stitching machines to larger sheets from when they trim pages. Should I just follow the insurers' recommendation, maybe write them a letter sighting possible standards that apply? They of course want to spend no money on sprinklers even though they had a fire. "How much for a couple of heads?" was the first thing the owner said to me. TD _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
