Because capital expenses (build-it) money comes from one bucket and operations (maintain it) comes from another, and ne'er the twain shall meet.
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > Velocity restrictions are bad for dry systems-- huge capacities at the same > time as demand is way under the curve. > I was wondering why GSA would pay big money for something they want to last > 100 years, but then not maintain it very well? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Sornsin [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 8:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: USACE Velocity > > One last thing to note about the velocity restrictions: their use helps to > continue the myth throughout engineering circles that they are a necessity. > I am certain most engineers who see a GSA spec with the velocity > restrictions aren't thinking it is there merely to give a larger safety > factor. Instead they are thinking things like :'high velocity is bad for > pipes'; 'it is too noisy'; 'the H-W equation is invalid at high velocities', > etc. So they continue to keep it within THEIR specs, which are seen by other > engineers and AHJs - and the myths of velocity restrictions continue. > > And if there is a desire to keep the restrictions in place strictly for the > more robust design, then please explain it in the specs, so the myths aren't > promulgated. 'As an additional safety factor, all pipe velocities shall be > limited...' At least then if the design goes awry the designer/engineer can > come back and explain why the restriction should be lifted for their > particular case. > > Mark A. Sornsin, PE | Fire Protection Engineer > Ulteig Engineers, Inc. |Fargo, ND > Direct: 701. 280.8591 | www.ulteig.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: USACE Velocity > > Given your argument maybe the oversized main/velocity restriction is > just a simpler way to get desired results in most cases but your > example points to the less than most cases and is valid. And maybe a > simple way to beat the devil isn't any more warranted than designing > to the extreme least costly. Comes back to the fact that some projects > are less critical than others and lend themselves to the low bid at > any cost philosophy, some have higher goals that can be dealt with by > using rule of thumb requirements, and some are so high value that > neither approach works, but since each project is unique until > defined. Each has to be analyzed and assessed, the cost of that > assessment being commensurate with the benefit of paying for it.Mark's > example requires a lot of value engineering to avoid very high > unnecessary costs, a strip mall or the latest Meth Lab Manor apartment > complex needs to be low-balled, while most projects may be somewhere > in between. > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
