Typically bonding and grounding is (MF/CSI) Division 26, shown on the Electrical (E-) Drawings and thus the work of the electrical contractor. However as always be diligent and make sure you don't have to supply and/or install the clamp., i.e. similar to flow switches and tampers.
Hope that helps, John John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Justin Reid Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Grounding John, thanks again for the info. I am going through the NEC Article 250.104 in the handbook now. I would think that this would likely fall in the electricians scope of work to ensure that it is done properly. Time to check the specs. Thanks, Justin Reid On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:08 PM, John Drucker <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Justin, > > Q- Would you say that for the most part this is not a problem with > sprinkler > systems since it is all metal piping which usually runs to an underground > system (ground)? > > A- No. Earth is a poor (high impendence) fault path, often around 25 ohms > or > worse. Using the previous example of a 277 volt lighting circuit on a 20 > amp > circuit breaker and the formula, I=E/R = 277(E)/25(R)= 11.08 Amps, not > enough to trip a 20 amp circuit breaker and clear the fault. > > Ever seen a utility wire arcing in trees, on the ground or roadway ?, > notwithstanding utility companies that have replaced fuses with solids, > there's simply not enough current flowing through the earth back to the > source to open the fuse. > > Q- Are there any fittings that people can think of that would break > continuity? > > A- As previously stated earth is a poor fault current path. This is why a > properly sized (low impedance) bonding connection from the buildings > electrical system to metallic sprinkler piping is required. But to answer > the question Dielectric Fittings and Backflow Preventers that are removed > for service are examples of items that disrupt continuity. > > Heres a common item in most homes; the bonding jumper on a water heater. > The > bonding jumper maintains continuity and thus equipotential (zero) between > hot and cold water piping. If it were missing and the hot metallic water > piping (unbonded) becomes energized and you touch both the hot and cold > valves simultaneously and the cold water piping is bonded you complete the > circuit. Better the bonding does it than the human body. > > Hope that helps, > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Fire Marshals Office > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or > otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and > approvals > from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Justin Reid > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 8:28 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Grounding > > John, > > Thanks for that info, I have not looked at this issue in the past. > > Would you say that for the most part this is not a problem with sprinkler > systems since it is all metal piping which usually runs to an underground > system (ground)? Are there any fittings that people can think of that would > break continuity? > > Justin Reid > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:27 AM, John Drucker > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Hmmmm. Better take a good look at the grass on your side first > > John Drucker - Mobile Email > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] < > > [email protected]> > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tue Oct 11 19:40:27 2011 > > Subject: RE: Grounding > > > > Thanks all - we got this one covered. Seems that a unified school > > district here in San Diego County had a paranoid operations manager some > > time back who required that lightning strike protection be retrofitted > > on ALL schools in the district. Those equipped with sprinklers got > > bonded ... never mind that we haven't had a building struck by > > lightning here in, I dunno like, FOREVER. I guess he came from > > Oklahoma or someplace where it's an issue. > > > > If I were to be reincarnated, I hope it will be as a public employee. > > That way, I could go on drunken spending sprees with money that I don't > > really have to account for and buy stuff that I don't really need. > > That would be fun. > > > > SML > > > > No offense intended to the diligent public employees who subscribe to > > this forum, of course. :-) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland > > Huggins > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:25 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Grounding > > > > 13: 10.6.8*In no case shall the underground piping be used as a > > grounding electrode for elec- > > trical systems. > > > > A.10.6.8.1While the use of the underground fire protection piping as > > the grounding elec- > > trode for the building is prohibited, NFPA 70requires that all > > metallic piping systems be > > bonded and grounded to disperse stray electrical currents. Therefore, > > the fire protection piping > > will be bonded to other metallic systems and grounded,but the > > electrical system will need > > an additional ground for its operation. > > > > > > Bonding is being connected to the ground system. The sprinkler system > > (specified for the underground portion) can not be used as a ground > > system. The last time I looked (more than a few days now) NEC said > > that all metal piping capable of becoming energized shall be > > grounded. That typically is interpreted as ALL. Must confess I > > haven't dug through the nasty details since it hasn't been a common > > problem. > > > > Roland > > > > > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Ron Greenman wrote: > > > > > NEC requires all metal to be bonded, not grounded (semantics sort of > > > since > > > both go to earth, but there is a difference between bonding and > > > grounding). > > > I'd look it up but have to go to a meeting. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Travis Mack, SET > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> There is a local jurisdiction here that requires it. He tells me > > >> it is in > > >> the NEC. > > >> > > >> > > >> On 10/11/2011 2:58 PM, Steve Leyton wrote: > > >> > > >>> Assuming it's in there somewhere, where does 13 and or 24 speak to > > >>> attaching bonding or grounding wires to sprinkler systems? > > >>> Question > > >>> posed to me today and I had to admit that I don't know ... hate > > >>> it when > > >>> that happens. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Steve Leyton > > >>> > > >>> PROTECTION DESIGN& CONSULTING > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> 2851 Camino del Rio South, Suite 400 > > >>> > > >>> San Diego, CA 92108 > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**- > > >>> > > >>> Ph: 858.751.2930 - ext. 102 > > >>> > > >>> Fax: 858.751.2933 > > >>> > > >>> Cell: 619.972.5696 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>> URL:<http://fireball.**firesprinkler.org/mailman/** > > >>> private/sprinklerforum/**attachments/20111011/20e3d0e9/ > > >>> > > **attachment.html<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/spri > > nklerforum/attachments/20111011/20e3d0e9/attachment.html > > >>> > > > >>>> > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > > >>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org > > >>> <[email protected]> > > >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/ > > >>> > > **sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/spri > > nklerforum > > >>> > > > >>> > > >> ______________________________**_________________ > > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > > >> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <[email protected]> > > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/ > > >> > > **sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/spri > > nklerforum > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ron Greenman > > > Instructor > > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > > > Bates Technical College > > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > > > 253.680.7346 > > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > > > Member: > > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > > > Bacon, > > > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: > > <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attach > > ments/20111011/57cf4803/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attach > > ments/20111011/7d06e62b/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: > > This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged > and > > confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, intended to be > relied > > upon by any person or persons other than the individual or entity named > > above and no warranties or representations are made or intended to > persons > > or entities not named above. 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