Brad,
I hesitate to get you going but... and I've said this a lot.... The IBC,
NFPA 5000, Dr. Seuss' Building Code, etc. are models presented to the
public as a method of regulating buildings that can be adopted, usually by
reference (cheap) or by publication (expensive), written by private code
model providers/companies looking to sell books. Jurisdictional entities
then choose a model (pretty much universally the IBC, much to the chagrin
of Dr. Seuss) to adopt as law. They have the opportunity to amend it before
adoption by adding, deleting or changing passages. Upon adoption the IBC
ceases to be the official title of that law/code, usually becoming the
Revised Code of (enter name of entity here) # whatever. Once adopted any
document that is referenced as being a part of that code are code, no
matter what it may have been entitled before the adoption, such as Standard
for the....). The big difference, as I see it between a model code,
standard, guideline, etc. is a model code has enabling language whereas a
standard does not and so needs to be referenced. A guideline won't be
referenced but may be mentioned as a recommended practice. Other referenced
publications can be documents originating from ASCE,such as number 7, ASTM,
etc. If you look at IBC Chapter 9, you will find (and I don't have the
numbers in my head) 904.xx referencing NFPA 13 (as amended) as the part the
code governing the installation of sprinklers in commercial buildings, and
904.xy and 904.xz referencing 13R & 13D for installation in multi-family
and SFD respectively. Once adopted as part of a law there is no distinction
regarding whether something is a code or not. When documents adopted as
code disagree, as sometimes occurs wit Federal work where the IBC/IFC and
NFPA 101 are both adopted then the more restrictive typically applies.
As for the metric system let's use the basic unit of measurement, the
meter, mas opposed to the imperial unit of the foot. Go smaller and 100
centimeters equals the meter while 1000 meters equal the kilometer, all
multiples of ten. Let's look at the foot. Twelve inches, broken down into
1/4s. 1/8s, 1/16ths, etc. Going the other way it's 5280 feet that make a
mile, but not a nautical mile. Then there are yards, chains, furlongs to
add spice. Weight? 1000 grams equals a kilogram, but 16 ounces equals a
pound. Volume is great. A thousand milliliters equals a liter, but imperial
volumes: 2 cups = 1 pint. 2 pints = 1 quart but 4 quarts = 1 gallon. I
forget how many gallons in a bushel, bushels in peck. Temperature is a
favorite. Both use the state change thresholds of water as markers. So
metric equals 0 degrees for solid/water phase and 100 for water/gas phase,
but lets use 32 and 212 'causer hat makes more sense. Now I hope you, the
number guy, was just messing with me on this.
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 6:29 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't get this, Rons. Are you talking about what NFPA 5000 was supposed
to become 30 years ago? That was also the deadline for converting to
metric. But since the American West was not won 25.4 millimeters by 25.4
millimeters, but inch by inch, and most systems are installed on Earth, we
can keep things like we like them. I need to ponder the Code vs Standard
fued, and will do so for the remainder of the evening.
Quoting Ron Greenman <[email protected]>:
Yeah Ron. When will that happen? Any day like any day we'll adopt the
metric system? I think the next time an AHJ tells me the state code
adopted
version of the IBC is the code, and the referenced version of 13 in that
code is just a standard I'm going to revert to a younger version of me and
there will be a set of bloody knuckles and a bloody nose. You can decide
who's sporting what.
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Brad Casterline
<[email protected]>**wrote:
fill it (nearly) full of non-comb insulation and tell everyone to have a
nice day :) (that still works, right? the insulation i mean)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]**]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:51 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org<[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space
It's another case of Architects designing buildings that don't comply
with
NFPA #13s' construction requirements. When will they learn that NFPA 13
is
building code as well as a sprinkler system installation standard?
Ron Fletcher
Aero Phoenix
-----Original Message-----
From:
sprinklerforum-bounces@**firesprinkler.org<[email protected]>
[mailto:sprinklerforum-**[email protected]<[email protected]>]
On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:35 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org<[email protected]>
Subject: Combustible Concealed Space
I have a combustible concealed space above the main floor of a two storey
building that is required to be sprinklered. This space is 16" deep and
consists of open web trusses spaced 16" on-centre. The webs are made of
2x4's, causing considerable obstructions. This space qualifies for the
use
of heads listed for this use.
My questions/dilemmas are as following:
(1) There is no feasible possibility to avoid obstructions. Any comments?
(2) As far as I know, the CC heads are only made by TYCO and they are not
ULC listed. I'm in a Canadian jurisdiction. So can I say there is no
listed
head (as the building code validates only ULC listings) and use standard
heads?
(3) If I use CC heads, can I use exposed blazemaster piping (subject to
the
restrictions of course)? The problem is exposed blazemaster piping is
allowed only in its UL listing and not in ULC. So just going around in
circles.
Thanks for any comments.
Tony
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/**fireprotection/<http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/>
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
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They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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