Forest- I understand where you are coming from but have come to a different conclusion after looking at the same evidence. An honest question for you- Do you support any building codes for residential homes. Should a home owner be able to build whatever he wants any way he wants it? Does he have a responsibility to his neighbors and the first responders that are REQUIRED to help when HE needs THEM?
Rod at Rapid -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Home Fire Sprinkler Guidance - New Jersey Im a marathon runner. I drink raw vegetable juice, eat mostly plant diet and meat on occasion. The entire country is dying from obesity and obesity related illnesses. Many more than die in fires. Now "the people" have decided to mandate health insurance coverage. Those who do not comply are subject to arrest. The "people" of NYC are now regulating various portion sizes in restaurants so fat people won't eat more. Do I have the moral right to tell another person what food to eat or what exercise to do? I don't think so. Do I have the moral right to tell them how many kids to have? (the "people" of china have already done this). If I don't exercise, drink booze and smoke cigarettes I will become Ill. My illness will affect society to a limited degree. In fact billions are spent on healthcare. I don't need "the people" to tell me how to eat food or how to exercise. Jack Lelane didn't need the "people" or government to tell him how to be healthy. In my city they have a new lawn policeman that drives around writing tickets for uncut lawns. As with any other government regulation if you don't comply you are subject to arrest and imprisonment. Hes probably making a good wage and government union benefits as Ohio has lost most major employers and cities are broke. I'm curious how many will support government mandates if all citizens were ordered to cut all fat food, destroy all booze and cigarettes and run a marathon in a year or be imprisoned. It's a different issue? It's just a building code, it's just a healthcare law, it's just an anti trust law, it's just a no smoking law, it's just a minor regulation. For 100 years people installed sprinklers in buildings without the government mandating it. I stay very healthy, somehow without mandates from "the people". Eventually there will be nothing left to mandate or regulate. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: > Ben won't go to jail because he didn't put in sprinklers but he'll be > denied a certificate of occupancy and when he feels tha Virginia City > is creeping too close to the Ponderosa and the good people of that > burg are creating too many laws that infringe on his personal rights > to ignore the rules of society while still reaping its benefits and he > wants to move he won't be able to sell the Ponderosa because he built a > substandard house. > Of course if Sheriff Coffee is doing his job a Do Not Occupy notice > will have been posted, no utilities will have been allowed to connect, > and if Ben decided to squat he would be subject to arrest for not > complying with the Do Not Occupy order, not because he didn't install > sprinklers, a law the society agreed was for the good of all. > > I remember a Mad Magazine parody of Bonanza from when I was a kid. Two > things stand out fifty plus years later: 1. Hoss was called Ox, and 2. > After an exhausting multi-day ride from the train station to the > house, the reporter that was visiting the Ponderosa was asked if he > was hungry. Upon answering affirmatively Ben stated, "Well, we better > get started. It's a three day ride to the kitchen." Most of us though > live in the city or suburbs, packed close together. Set-backs are > agreements between us as to how, among other things, to not expose > each others' risky behaviors. We each have to maintain five feet of > clearance from our mutual property line because we've decided that ten > feet of separation is a good idea. Now does this onerous law not apply > to you? Doesn't it infringe on your right to use your land as you > wish? Doesn't your liberty then force me to build my house ten feet > from the line, infringing on my right to use my land as I wish, if I > want to maintain a safe distance from your selfishness. Or perhaps > I'll use my land in our suburban neighborhood for all day/every day > open air rap concerts, or for my steel mill. I ought not have to deal > with zoning laws that infringe on my freedoms. Remember that most > houses change hands every five years. Building codes assure me that if > I'm buying your house it was built to a standard acceptable to all at > the time of construction. Remember that I can't see if you built your > walls with studs randomly spaced of near three foot enters, wired it > with lamp cord, and used Cheerios for insulation. The building code > protects me from you, the unscrupulous or ignorant builder. In fact > the first written building code in Babylon proscribed the punishments > associated with building substandard (defined in this case as something that > collapses and harms someone) housing. > > If you watch the excellent HBO biography of John Adams it opens on the > evening of the Boston Massacre. John has heard the word fire shouted > and rushes outside, gets his mandatory for home owners to have bucket, > and goes to the closest community well/pump to fill it, only to fid the pump > frozen. > Living in Boston at hat time (population at he time: 20,000) required > that a homeowner build a certain distance from his neighbor, maintain > a pike (for tearing down houses to form a fire break) and bucket for > community fire protection, respond to all fires upon threat of jail > time for non-compliance, and perhaps act as a fire marshal (the guy > that directed fire fighting activities, including deciding whose house > was coming down to build that fire break). These were very similar to > the laws imposed in London a hundred years earlier after the Great > Fire of 1660(?). One of the first building rules imposed on the > citizens of Boston by themselves was a prohibition against building chimneys > out of sticks and mud. > > Atlas Shrugged was very influential when it was written, just like > 1984 and Brave New World, and for the same reasons; They all addressed > some very real concerns of their times, concerns that have diminished > or changed a century later. This recent resurgence in interest for > this childish paean to selfishness has accompanied the philosophy of the > "Chicago School" > theory of economics and may just be a favorite undergraduate > literature survey selection that attracted one of it's whiz kids from the > eighties. > > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 6:45 AM, David Autry <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It seems Nebraskans are about as important as Kansans. >> I heard a former FM say once "I'm not going to tell some rancher out >> in the Sandhills he can't build a new home without sprinklers" >> I can't image why anyone (with some common sense) would build a new >> home without sprinklers. But, then again I KNOW the benefits of such. >> >> >> David Autry >> >> Meininger Fire Protection Inc. >> 2521 W L St. Suite No.4 >> Lincoln, Ne 68522 >> Voice (402) 466-2616 >> Fax (402) 466-2617 >> [email protected] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Frank Herrick >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 4:30 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Home Fire Sprinkler Guidance - New Jersey >> >> My heartfelt congratulations to everyone in New Jersey who made this >> happen, you have saved lives ! >> >> That’s a thousand times better than what's happed here in Kansas. >> Code official have been cut off at the knees thanks to the combined >> efforts of the HBA and the Realtor's Association. Local city and >> county cannot require sprinklers in single family housing >> >> I guess that the citizens of New jersey are more important than >> people in Kansas and deserve the protection of a residential fire sprinkler >> system. >> As >> a fire service professional and a paramedic with over 25 years of >> experience I can tell you exactly what will happen in a home without >> fire sprinklers. >> >> Furthermore, I can tell you that the two most likely places these >> residents will relocate to: The Burn Center or The Morgue. >> >> Here is the Kansas law that will be responsible for the deaths and >> injuries to numerous Men, Women, Children and the elderly, and who >> knows how many >> firefighters: >> >> Kansas Statute 12-16,219. Cities, counties; prohibition on fire >> sprinkler requirements in certain residential dwellings. >> >> (a) As used in this section: >> >> (1) "Municipality" means any city or county. >> >> (2) "Residential structure" means any improvement to real property to >> be used or occupied as a single-family dwelling or multi-family >> dwelling of two attached living units or less or any manufactured >> home. >> >> (b) No municipality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, order, >> code, standard or rule requiring the installation of a multi-purpose >> residential fire protection sprinkler system or any other fire >> sprinkler protection system in any residential structure. Nothing in >> this section shall prohibit any person from voluntarily installing a >> multi-purpose residential fire protection sprinkler system or any >> other fire sprinkler protection system in a residential structure. >> >> (c) No municipality shall require the installation of a multi-purpose >> residential fire protection sprinkler system in any residential >> structure as a condition for consideration or approval of any >> building permit or plat. >> >> History: L. 2010, ch. 116, § 25; L. 2011, ch. 43, § 1; Apr. 14. >> >> Very sorrowfully yours, >> >> Capt. Frank J. Herrick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
