You ought to be demanding it in that detail, Craig.
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:36 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Steven, > > I have never received a contractor shop drawing that covered things to the > detail you describe. It's often a wonder to get the basic information on > the drawings like pipe elevations and hangers let alone anything to the > depth you describe. > > I don't disagree with your statement just saying, I've never seen it > happen. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Group Lead > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven > Scandaliato > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:00 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: seismic bracing calcs > > Wait...hold on...just to make sure, and Craig I am sure you probably know > this...BUT we have a lot more than just calcs for braces that have to be > addressed. We have 4 other design features that have to be addressed. > Cplgs, clearance, separation and restraint. This is a weakest link kinda > thing...so just because we have braced a system does not mean it is > designed for seismic...we have to put flex and rigid cplgs where they go, > we have to show that we have accounted for clearance where it applies, we > have to acknowledge that there is no separation required if applicable and > we have to show and space b'line restraint. Seismic design demands its own > sheets and symbols and sheet installation notes etc. Do not try and pile > all of this onto an already unreadable piping plan. EOR or Shop design, > all of these categories must be addressed in the documents....and by the > way, putting 4-ways and every change of direction is not a design feature > required or intended by 9.3. I see a lot of contractors do that thinking > they are in compliance. This may be a great cost saver or standardized > thing you want to do with your fitters but it does not automatically put > you in compliance with 9.3....just sayin. > > One other note while I am on this, we all need to pay better attention to > restraint. I still have many AHJs and contractors alike that haven't heard > of it. If seismic is required then restraint is required. This isn't > optional. And pay attention to the spacing requirements for it. Many, > including myself, have fallen into the "end of line" mentality and think > that is the only place we have to have it...but if you have long > branchlines, you definitely will have more than "end of line" locations. > > With Sicilian Love, > > Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS > 520.971.2322 Cell > Skype: steven.scandaliato > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > rongreenman . > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:41 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: seismic bracing calcs > > Cliff's opinion is right. > > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Cliff Whitfield > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Craig, > > > > If you don't calc it, how do you know it works? That would be like > > sending in drawings with 'hydraulically calculated pipe sizes' with no > > hydraulic calcs to prove the sizes are correct. Just not happening. > > > > A lot of 'East Coast' contractors/designers (I fit in that category > > even though I now live in Colorado) just show braces on their drawings > > but it's not even close to being the correct way to do it. They need > > to take the time to learn from the AFSA classes that Ken Wagonner and > > others do so that they can do it right. I've had to take it 3 times > > because I don't use it very often and it easy to forget without the > > repetition but it's just something you have to do if you are doing > > your > job correctly. > > > > Simply my opinion (but I think it's right!) > > > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > > President > > Fire Design, Inc. > > Ph: 719-488-3479 > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > www.fire-design.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 7:27 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: seismic bracing calcs > > > > Seismic design category C, contractor submittal package, > > > > Do you provide a calc sheet for EQ bracing or just locate per NFPA 13 > > and send typical catalog data sheets? > > > > FM Global project, BTW. > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > > Fire Protection Group Lead > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
