Well that's were we are going to disagree...I haven't put tick marks on a dwg or required them on a dwg since I can't remember. if a licensed contractor who employs certified (licensed in some states) fitters who cannot read a tables that tells him where to put a hanger based a pipe size then we got way bigger problems than seismic features...
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:04 PM To: [email protected] Reply To: [email protected] Subject: RE: seismic bracing calcs It's a miracle if they remember to show hangers on drawings and they're actually legible. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: seismic bracing calcs You ought to be demanding it in that detail, Craig. On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:36 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Steven, > > I have never received a contractor shop drawing that covered things to > the detail you describe. It's often a wonder to get the basic > information on the drawings like pipe elevations and hangers let alone > anything to the depth you describe. > > I don't disagree with your statement just saying, I've never seen it > happen. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Group Lead > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven > Scandaliato > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:00 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: seismic bracing calcs > > Wait...hold on...just to make sure, and Craig I am sure you probably > know this...BUT we have a lot more than just calcs for braces that > have to be addressed. We have 4 other design features that have to be > addressed. > Cplgs, clearance, separation and restraint. This is a weakest link > kinda thing...so just because we have braced a system does not mean it > is designed for seismic...we have to put flex and rigid cplgs where > they go, we have to show that we have accounted for clearance where it > applies, we have to acknowledge that there is no separation required > if applicable and we have to show and space b'line restraint. Seismic > design demands its own sheets and symbols and sheet installation notes > etc. Do not try and pile all of this onto an already unreadable > piping plan. EOR or Shop design, all of these categories must be > addressed in the documents....and by the way, putting 4-ways and every > change of direction is not a design feature required or intended by > 9.3. I see a lot of contractors do that thinking they are in > compliance. This may be a great cost saver or standardized thing you > want to do with your fitters but it does not automatically put you in > compliance with 9.3....just sayin. > > One other note while I am on this, we all need to pay better attention > to restraint. I still have many AHJs and contractors alike that > haven't heard of it. If seismic is required then restraint is > required. This isn't optional. And pay attention to the spacing > requirements for it. Many, including myself, have fallen into the > "end of line" mentality and think that is the only place we have to > have it...but if you have long branchlines, you definitely will have more > than "end of line" locations. > > With Sicilian Love, > > Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS > 520.971.2322 Cell > Skype: steven.scandaliato > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > rongreenman . > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:41 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: seismic bracing calcs > > Cliff's opinion is right. > > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Cliff Whitfield > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Craig, > > > > If you don't calc it, how do you know it works? That would be like > > sending in drawings with 'hydraulically calculated pipe sizes' with > > no hydraulic calcs to prove the sizes are correct. Just not happening. > > > > A lot of 'East Coast' contractors/designers (I fit in that category > > even though I now live in Colorado) just show braces on their > > drawings but it's not even close to being the correct way to do it. > > They need to take the time to learn from the AFSA classes that Ken > > Wagonner and others do so that they can do it right. I've had to > > take it 3 times because I don't use it very often and it easy to > > forget without the repetition but it's just something you have to do > > if you are doing your > job correctly. > > > > Simply my opinion (but I think it's right!) > > > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > > President > > Fire Design, Inc. > > Ph: 719-488-3479 > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > www.fire-design.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 7:27 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: seismic bracing calcs > > > > Seismic design category C, contractor submittal package, > > > > Do you provide a calc sheet for EQ bracing or just locate per NFPA > > 13 and send typical catalog data sheets? > > > > FM Global project, BTW. > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > > Fire Protection Group Lead > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl > > er.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl > > er.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
