And to comment on another point, the sprinkler contractor works for the mechanical or the general contractor and does not have access to the owner. If the AhJ wants something off the seat of his pants that costs the sprink contractor the general doesn't care, he has a contract, he just wants the work done. His typical response is to that effect that the sprinkle should have known. There is no one but the sprinkler contractor to fight with the AHJ. And that goes back to someone's comment about picking battles.
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 8:49 PM, John Drucker <[email protected]> wrote: > Steve, NFPA handed them the weapon, 13R.... > > As for IRC I subscribe to the life safety part (13D/P2904) for dwellings, > hey its you're home. > > But multiple dwellings on pedestals where we start counting stories at the > pedestal ?, wood frame 5 stories up ?, and then not fully sprinklered > ?.....13R ? > > > John Drucker - Mobile Email > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Cell/Text 732-904-6823 > > > Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yeah, how about somebody file a lawsuit against the NAHB or all the > homebuilders who have lobbied and gotten return for the political patronage > in the way of suspended residential sprinkler requirements or other such > loopholes or relaxations? This is dirty business, but it's the only way > that things area going to change. Go to the Fire Sprinkler Initiative's > website and look for the page that has "Sprinkler Requirements By State". > I realize this is off the topic of Edgewater a bit, but it's outrageous > how many state legislatures have passed prohibitions against any ordinance > or adoptions. They completely handcuffed local building and fire > officials ... > > I've been asked to consult on projects where owners and/or architects are > trying to get 13D accepted instead of 13R, or 13R instead of 13. I won't > take the jobs, but I'm offered one or more a month. > > SL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum on behalf of John Drucker > Sent: Thu 1/29/2015 6:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: 13D exterior overhangs. > > Owen, agreed 13D does not require heads under overhangs. What I am > saying is what's to stop an adopting agency from amending the standard ?, > nothing. Until a code or standard is adopted it has no jurisdiction. > > In any case I understand the value of 13D and P2904 hence why I supported > their use for amendments to R300 of the NJIRC. The recent events in > Edgewater NJ may change how and when 13R is deployed despite the standards > intent. People up there are really pissed, a second lawsuit was filed today. > > John > > > > John Drucker - Mobile Email > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Cell/Text 732-904-6823 > > > [email protected] wrote: > > John, > Thank you for responding. It goes back to the intent of 13D, to provide > people 10 minutes to escape and for the system to be affordable to install. > If the place burns to the ground but everyone escaped, the system worked > 100% as intended. It drives me crazy as inspectors come and go they add > their personal wants and desires for these systems without following proper > procedure. 13D does not require heads in exterior over-hangs. > Owen Evans > Former AHJ now 13D designer and consultant. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 29, 2015, at 5:46 PM, "John Drucker - Home" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Firstin, > > > > The question is too vague to be answered. As an active AHJ there are many > > variables, adopted codes and standards, local amendments, special > > circumstances not addressed by the code, variations, site approval trade > > offs and on and on. In order to answer the question each one of those > has to > > be addressed. Believe it or not most AHJ's have an underlying need, real > or > > imagined, that they are trying to address. Keep in mind cost is not one > of > > them since the AHJ doesn't (and shouldn't) profit from requiring > protection. > > I'm not defending this AHJ but you have to dig deeper. > > > > Lastly I've said this time and time again, why are designers and > contractors > > engaged in these arguments with AHJ's ?. Convey your situation to the > > beneficiary, that being the owner of the property. If he/she disagrees > let > > them take up the fight through appeal. > > > > John Drucker > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] > > On Behalf Of [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 6:29 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: 13D exterior overhangs. > > > > 13D does not require heads in exterior over-hangs, such as a second story > > over-hanging a driveway. Can an AHJ apply 13 rules to 13D systems > without an > > amendment and require heads in over-hangs 4' & greater? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
